Peter Baker

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, Michael, I've been covering these meetings at White Houses since 1996, and I've never seen anything like this, never. You had the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, show up for a meeting with the president of the United States, Donald Trump, in the middle of a war. with so much at stake. And so, you know, everybody was looking to this meeting to see how it would come together.

Yeah, Michael, I've been covering these meetings at White Houses since 1996, and I've never seen anything like this, never. You had the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, show up for a meeting with the president of the United States, Donald Trump, in the middle of a war. with so much at stake. And so, you know, everybody was looking to this meeting to see how it would come together.

I mean, it was extraordinary. It was excruciating. It was a brutal dressing down of a foreign leader in the Oval Office. Presidents just don't do that. They get frustrated at times, and sometimes there are pointed moments, but nothing like this verbal assault that we've seen even on an adversary, much less on an ally.

I mean, it was extraordinary. It was excruciating. It was a brutal dressing down of a foreign leader in the Oval Office. Presidents just don't do that. They get frustrated at times, and sometimes there are pointed moments, but nothing like this verbal assault that we've seen even on an adversary, much less on an ally.

And I think in history, we're going to look back on this as a unique singular moment. Right.

And I think in history, we're going to look back on this as a unique singular moment. Right.

Absolutely right. This is a rupture of a relationship now between the United States and Ukraine, 11 years after Russia first invaded, three years after its full-fledged invasion in 2022. And America has been Ukraine's best friend, biggest partner, most important patron.

Absolutely right. This is a rupture of a relationship now between the United States and Ukraine, 11 years after Russia first invaded, three years after its full-fledged invasion in 2022. And America has been Ukraine's best friend, biggest partner, most important patron.

And if this rupture, this blow up, this meltdown in the Oval Office means that the relationship now is on the rocks, it has great consequence for Ukraine, especially. It has great consequences for Russian aggression in the world, for Europe, and for the United States, I would say.

And if this rupture, this blow up, this meltdown in the Oval Office means that the relationship now is on the rocks, it has great consequence for Ukraine, especially. It has great consequences for Russian aggression in the world, for Europe, and for the United States, I would say.

Right. Well, first of all, it's important to know the history. President Trump has never liked Ukraine in particular. He was convinced way back in his first term that Ukraine had been opposed to his election in 2016. This is a Russian talking point. Right. This is a Russian intelligence fable, but one that Trump bought into. And, of course, Zelensky was the other guy on the phone.

Right. Well, first of all, it's important to know the history. President Trump has never liked Ukraine in particular. He was convinced way back in his first term that Ukraine had been opposed to his election in 2016. This is a Russian talking point. Right. This is a Russian intelligence fable, but one that Trump bought into. And, of course, Zelensky was the other guy on the phone.

He had the, quote, perfect phone call, not so perfect, that led to his impeachment, in which he tried to bully Zelensky. into launching a fake investigation of Joe Biden.

He had the, quote, perfect phone call, not so perfect, that led to his impeachment, in which he tried to bully Zelensky. into launching a fake investigation of Joe Biden.

Very awkward history. And during the last four years, when Trump was out of office, he was never supportive of Ukraine in its war against Russia. He praised Vladimir Putin for being a genius for sending troops to pressure Ukraine into making concessions. And he opposed... aid to Ukraine, basically blocked it by Republicans in the House, forced them to block it for about six months.

Very awkward history. And during the last four years, when Trump was out of office, he was never supportive of Ukraine in its war against Russia. He praised Vladimir Putin for being a genius for sending troops to pressure Ukraine into making concessions. And he opposed... aid to Ukraine, basically blocked it by Republicans in the House, forced them to block it for about six months.

And sitting next to him was J.D. Vance, who was famously quoted saying, I don't care what happens in Ukraine. So these are not supporters of Ukraine going into this meeting. And then over the last two weeks, you see the relationship really deteriorate. changed dramatically.

And sitting next to him was J.D. Vance, who was famously quoted saying, I don't care what happens in Ukraine. So these are not supporters of Ukraine going into this meeting. And then over the last two weeks, you see the relationship really deteriorate. changed dramatically.