Rob Henderson

And, you know, he's talking about how he's he actually has lots of friends from all different races and ethnicities and so on.

And I think he just wants to have it both ways, where he wants to have all of the status and recognition and excitement from his fans for saying these provocative and outlandish things.

But then he also wants to be more of a respected figure who says, oh, no, I have friends from every race and every ethnicity, so you can't really pin me down as a racist after all.

Yeah.

Yeah, the North Star is just attention, I think.

It's not, these are my principles, or here's the vision I have for the country or for society, or here's a path, a more constructive path forward.

It's, you know, I'm just going to say whatever might, you know, get someone to clip this interview and make this little thing go viral or get, you know, a rise out of other fans.

Okay, no N-words and no F-words.

yeah well one of the interesting things about this individual we've been discussing is he he does try to tell people to live their lives a certain way but then he himself won't do it so you know one of the things that pierce morgan pressed him on is some clip of him saying you know you should avoid black people uh and then in his own life again he has friends so is he actually

like is he is he actually a racist or is he not he's telling his followers like he's promoting this you know toxic vision of racism but then he himself is not even abiding by it so and i don't think that yeah the shock jocks these radio hosts in past eras were doing things like that of telling their listeners to do something and then they themselves doing like the opposite

I think it's probably getting worse in the age of the social media influencer era where a lot of the attention economy relies on saying outlandish things, saying things to please your audience.

Chloe and I were speaking about this idea of audience capture earlier.

You see elevated levels of dark triad traits in public figures.

And I know, I think you've done some original research on this, Dr. Drew, for celebrities and so on with the narcissism issue.

But you see this as well with psychopathy and Machiavellianism.

I think that this individual, NF, he probably has elevated levels of Machiavellianism.

One of the characteristics of Machiavellianism is strategic duplicity.

where you're a different person depending on who you're trying to please, who you're trying to ingratiate yourself with.

Coleman Hughes wrote an excellent piece in the Free Press about him, about how there are sort of two versions of this individual, depending on whether he's hosting his own show versus whether he's guesting on someone else's show.

And so I think it's not just the narcissism, but also maybe this Machiavellianism as well.