Rob Paston

And it's really not what your book is about either.

Harsh.

Well,

Your book is broadly about how we get the economy growing again so that we have an economy that works for people, particularly people who are lower paid.

Truthfully, we are a rich economy.

The issue is not can we be rich again?

It's how do we have an economy that works properly, particularly for the very many millions of people who think that actually people like you, Westminster, let them down.

It's not a better title.

But as I was just saying, I just don't think, you know, I think the title, if I'm going to be critical, I'd say you're doing what you accuse journalists of doing, of sensationalising something to get a few readers.

But that's not what the book's about.

Well, it is.

It really is because, you know... We're not poor, Jeremy.

By any international standards, we are not a poor country.

And look, Stefan, I would completely agree.

that it's the right challenge.

Of course it is.

I guess the first question I want to ask you is, why is this only dawned on you now?

You were in government for 14 blooming years.

Why did you and your colleagues so singularly fail to grasp what needed to be done?

We also had the south arm of Brexit, which, you know, the economy was significantly recovering before Brexit.