Robert Pape

We're writing its obituary.

We meet at a dangerous moment.

The world has learned that Americans can be beat.

That's what I'm telling you.

The Strait of Hormuz still blocked.

If you punish them enough, they're going to cave.

They're not going to cave.

And you yourself have said you don't understand why.

If I start to punish you, Patrick, and I want that microphone from you, and I'm going to threaten to take that pen and stab it in your hand, what am I going to do next?

I want your computer, or I'm going to do it again.

I want the shirt off your back, or I'm going to do it again.

Once you give in to the bully, you're his or her forever.

Yes, but within that distribution, once you have that amount who will fight, you are in a different world of hurt.

No, I understand.

Yeah, really.

Absolutely.

I'm looking forward to this, too.

Thank you.

And it's deeper than that because if you had read Bombing to Win, and I know you haven't, but if you had read it, and the academic world did, as soon as they saw the title for my book on suicide terrorism, they already had half of the story.

Because once you get inside and understand what it takes to win, and then you apply it here, so it has more meanings.