Robert Pape

So how did you get the JCPOA in 2015?

This is not starting in the story of 2015.

Now, it starts in 2010.

2008 and it starts in 2010 you need russia and that not just russia saying well i won't get involved you need russia to be part of the public coalition once you bring in the target's military allies patrick now you got leverage and pressure right now we're totally not doing that okay

And it's – well, now they're eating our lunch.

But I'm just telling you that you're talking to somebody who has been thinking about these problems for decades and who has said that – and I've said this even in print in 2008 in the Weekly Standard – the number one problem that Obama's foreign policy is going to face –

Is Iran getting a nuclear weapon?

And everything needs to be organized around that.

And he did.

And he did.

Oh, yes.

But it's a success because Russia and China were part of it, not because we had some brilliant diplomats.

And, oh, yes, our diplomats are just so much better than all the other diplomats.

When you're in Washington, you want a job.

You know how you get a job.

You say you're the best diplomat.

Everybody else is not.

OK, I'm not looking for that job.

OK, I'm looking to what would you actually do to solve the problem?

And I'm perfectly happy being a professor at the University of Chicago who sits around, thinks about these ideas, comes up with an idea and then tries to persuade a White House that,