Robert Pape

It's the amount of fervor here.

Oh, they love it.

Yeah, but you've got to be there.

I mean, this idea, just hear about it.

I mean, being there, and I did four of them.

My wife came with me here on three of them.

I mean, just to really, and it's really, but this is what you're articulating.

It's very likely what he would say.

Uh, and I would say, um, president Trump, there's, there's two issues here to really explain.

Uh, I definitely understand, uh, that you're in a hurry here.

Uh, you want to make this happen during your presidency.

But here's the big issue you need to hear, which is that idea of punishment, that you're going to – your change to the past is rapid punishment, is exactly what other presidents have tried to do.

Bill Clinton tried to do this with Slobodan Milosevic in March 1999.

And that produced massive backlash, which made a problem that was a problem a gigantic crisis here.

And this could be 10 times worse.

And the reason is because what happens when you try to punish is what we were just describing before.

You're going to get a fight or flight response by a distribution of people inside the government and also in the society.

And you only need a 25% or a third of that distribution to want to fight before this all becomes worse.

Because what you may think you're going to do is knock off the worst of the worst.

here um but that's not what's really going to happen what you're doing is you're taking a risk that when you try to speed this up it will become 10 times worse and you're going to have to walk away with a gigantic black eye uh here and that's what happened to bill clinton when he tried to do this uh and that's why when we went into this with the bot with the balkans after this whole thing blew up yes we finally fixed it and i was uh giving advice um uh here there as well