Rory Sutherland

That's just not going to work.

And what you're saying, and I agree with you,

What you're saying also is, but you could envisage a separate category of CRM startups, next generation CRM startups, which don't just replicate the workflow part of old CRM, but literally do the work, including generate pipe, maybe even generate sales.

And at some point, that would become compelling.

And those are the guys who can take market share.

That's the argument, correct?

It is an easy sell, though, and we have investment experts.

One of the learnings you've had is there are nuances around every B2B company's go-to-market such that one time in two, you promise I'll generate $5 million in pipe, but you don't.

Because maybe it's a very tight time where there's only 200, 300 target customers and there's no undiscovered customers to call.

Maybe it's depending on the sales cycle or whatever it is, there's dynamics that quite often

My observation, having seen a lot of companies come in and out of this market, is purely a promise.

The easy sale, which is that we'll make customers happen, turns out to not always be true.

And those customers have a high propensity to churn.

It is an evolution because yes, you're right.

The first generation will make magic happen everywhere.

We've seen that in our companies too.

The second generation is,

We have to be very clear on where we can add value and do that really well.

And don't promise AI magic pixie dust because you'll just end up getting revenue and getting churn.

So pushing on this thread, you made the comment, unlike some of the re-engineered CRM from the ground up, the two you cited, Qualified and Artisan.