Rory Sutherland

So the Western family would control Loblaw's...

To some extent, even though they're not majority shareholder.

Of course, yeah.

Ford Motor Company falls into that definition.

I think the family or some, there's a particular class of shares.

A lot of dual class coming.

But hold on.

I want to go back to Dyson for a second.

What makes Dyson so effective at advertising?

Actually, it's not advertising, it's marketing and it's customer experience.

What's the difference between marketing and advertising?

Advertising is a subordinate part of marketing.

And in many cases, even I've worked in advertising for 36 years, I want to think of myself probably unsuccessfully, but I still aspire to be a marketer, not an advertising person, because advertising is a useful toolkit available to the marketer.

And by the way, generally is pretty effective.

But Peter Drucker, the purpose of business is to find and keep a customer profitably.

That's the purpose of marketing.

It's to, you know, to either create or find customers with whom over time you can engage in mutually advantageous relationships to mutual profit.

That's it.

Well,

The story I heard from someone who worked at Dyson for 12 years is that he was sitting in a presentation, James Dyson presiding, and they were presenting the call center sort of efficiency statistics.