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Rory Sutherland

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
2934 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

Now, as Roger L. Martin, your fellow Canadian and my own personal Svengali says, any idiot can cut costs, okay?

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

What takes real skill is cutting costs in a way that doesn't destroy value.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

One of the things that I don't think is understood by tech nerds

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

and if I'm being really cruel, males in general in many cases, is the extent to which in evaluating any business or experience, the human component of it, the face-to-face component, does really, really heavy lifting.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

I've got a lovely story to illustrate this, which I think is fantastic.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

It's the absolute perfect example of misalignment of optimization through quantification bias.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

So wonderful man, Alex Batchelor, used to be the marketing director of Royal Mail, similar to what you have with Canada Post, USPS.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

Sorry, not USPS.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

Yes, it's USPS.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

And they couldn't make any sense of the fact that the brand perception of Royal Mail bore no relation to service levels.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

So there would be districts and areas where, you know, every single first-class letter arrived early the following day, extraordinarily reliable levels of service, and Royal Mail wasn't particularly held in affection or esteem.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

There are other areas where the service was frankly a bit ropey and people seemed to love it.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

Now, this obviously upset them because they thought that all the billions or certainly hundreds of millions they'd invested in service quality improvement should translate into customer satisfaction and therefore, you know, some sort of brand voltage.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

And someone had a theory and they said, I think something else is going on.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

And the theory, which was put to the test and proved absolutely right, was that the major determinant of whether you liked royal male or not was whether you liked your postman or postie, technically, to be used the gender neutral term.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

So people who had a rather unreliable service, but the postman did the odd favor for them, left things in the porch, had a chat with them, those people thought it was a brilliant organization, regardless of the actual metrics that were being pursued.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

And I think that's very true in any service organization.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

There's an electricity company, a gas company, a water company, a utility.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

You may interact with them online 95% of the time, but the one or two occasions where you interact by telephone or face-to-face disproportionately affect your perception of the organization.

The Knowledge Project
How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

And I've argued for quite a time, if I were being completely honest, I've worked in advertising for 36 years, and if I were a wholly honest person without fear of annoying my colleagues,