Rory Sutherland

You have to... I guess it depends on how you frame it, right?

I agree.

All Collier said is, look, this is inordinately more complicated.

It is.

One of the things he said is the right, for example, of recent immigrants to family reunification is a bit dubious because you're giving someone a right which the native population do not have.

So I can't pick five Canadians and get them British citizenship.

And also, it should be decided by someone other than human rights lawyers.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

I would probably agree.

Because, you know, fundamentally, as a branch of the law, that is not a partial law.

Because human rights lawyers, you know that great phrase, is it Sinclair Lewis or someone, which is, it is difficult to get someone to disbelieve something when their salary is dependent on believing it.

And just as management consultants have a huge incentive to sell in digital transformation programs to their clients, and therefore we have a culture in business which more or less doesn't assume that any money spent on tech

is money well spent?

They don't look at the opportunity cost.

Should we have a better call sector?

And it's the same thing.

A human rights lawyer, it is in their interests for human rights to capture a greater and greater part of public discourse at the expense of democratic bodies.

And consequently, it's, you know, you're not really in the dispensation of justice.

You're in the amplification of grievance business.

It's very different.