Rory Sutherland

McCain, family controlled.

So what I was saying about the Advertising Effectiveness Awards, four out of the five gold winners, it's only every two years, this award, and it's very, very rigorously judged.

Four out of the five winners, namely McCain, your Canadian heroes.

McCain, Yorkshire Tea, Specsavers, and Laithwaites, a wine company.

Four out of the five winners.

The fifth one was Guinness, which is sort of a family company in a sense, although it's owned by a Diageo.

And so my point is that, you know, we should actually have a kite mark that allows consumers to prefer to buy from companies which aren't listed on some stock exchange somewhere and hence aren't controlled by the finance function because they're more trustworthy.

It's an interesting...

I don't know if I agree with that, but it's interesting to think.

Is Rogers still family controlled?

So the Western family would control Loblaw's...

To some extent, even though they're not majority shareholder.

Of course, yeah.

Ford Motor Company falls into that definition.

I think the family or some, there's a particular class of shares.

A lot of dual class coming.

But hold on.

I want to go back to Dyson for a second.

What makes Dyson so effective at advertising?

Actually, it's not advertising, it's marketing and it's customer experience.