Sam Sanders

If everyone knows this is happening, how does it keep happening?

Why has no one stopped this?

Yeah.

I think most Americans, at least when they are confronted with the beginnings of this kind of pig butchering scam, their only thought is themselves and how to navigate it.

It's really hard for people, I think, to imagine that the scam coming at them is attached to a real person who is suffering.

Do authorities around the Golden Triangle

have the desire and capacity to stop some of this themselves?

What is the biggest way that reporting this story changed how you handle communication, potential scams, all of this stuff?

The biggest way this story changed you.

Yeah.

Did you ever meet him?

Get his real name?

Well, thanks to Muhammad.

I mean, incredible bravery and incredible bravery on your part to really see this story through.

Thank you, Sam.

Thank you.

We'll include a link to Andy Greenberg's reporting for Wired on our show notes page.

And every weekend, you can find new episodes of Apple News in Conversation in the Apple News app.

Just tap on the audio tab, the little headphones at the bottom, to find it.

I've read the stories of people who have survived these compounds and escaped.