Sarah Koenig

Here's Adnan's friend Laura.

Apparently, this is not as outlandish as it might sound.

Did you say half, half the people?

Because literally like the memory isn't in their brain anymore or it never was in their brain or –

Do you think it's, is there another scenario where you, it starts out as a lie, as a sort of cognizant lie, like I didn't do this, I had nothing to do with this.

And then over time, you truly believe that lie, like you kind of erase the fact that you're lying and it just becomes the truth of it for you?

Less often in homicides?

Off the top of my head, I can think of five different people in this story whom other people have told me they think are either pathological liars or psychopaths, but I shouldn't trust anything they say.

This term, psychopath, gets thrown around so easily as a kind of catch-all term for a cold-hearted and calculating killer.

If Adnan did this, and if he did it the way Jay tells it, he is so cold-hearted.

I mean, Jay tells the cops that Adnan says to him, quote, all the other motherfuckers, referring to like hoods and thugs and stuff, think they're hardcore, but he just killed a person with his bare hands, unquote.

If Adnan said that, does that mean the 15 years since has been this very, very long con that he's calculating enough to only pretend to be the normal-sounding person he is with me on the phone?

Ewing told me, a psychopath usually means a person who has little or no conscience, is glib, who can't empathize or relate to other people's feelings.

They can read other people very well, but they don't have genuine empathy.

Now I'm running through my head everything you just said, seeing if it applies, of course.

And some of it I could see like, yeah, maybe, and other stuff I'm like, no, I don't think so.

I mean, so it really does seem like Adnan is like...

Really functioning really well and is just fine in prison like he's he seems very adaptable and he's always had like a job with responsibilities and he's not gotten into he's not been disciplined really ever except for having a cell phone.

And doesn't appear to have any kind of antisocial behavior.

He's got lots of friends.