Saskia Vandoorne

I'll give you the example of the UK.

In the UK, in September and October, you are going to have two cases where

A man is accused of drugging and raping his wife and allegedly enlisting 13 men to come and rape her.

In that September, in October, another case of a man who has been accused of drugging and raping his wife and inviting six men allegedly to come and rape her.

So...

Dominic Pellico was not an outlier.

He was the beginning.

And I wonder, is this a crime that is on the rise?

Or is it that Giselle Pellico coming out, speaking, telling other women, shame must change sides, please speak up.

Has this meant that women are now more prepared to come forward?

It's really hard to tell because the data just isn't there.

But anecdotally, having spoken to psychologists who have profiled a lot of the defendants in the Pellico trial, psychiatrists who have been speaking with a lot of men, perpetrators of this type of crime, they have told me that they're seeing more cases.

And I think that, you know, it's not a leap to make to look at how ubiquitous this content is.

And again, this idea that someone, a man will stumble across this, will never have even thought of it, but because everyone else that he is suddenly in a telegram group is doing it, it just doesn't make it as scary.

And you really got the sense going back to the telegram group,

that there wasn't any shame for them.

Like, it wasn't something to be ashamed about.

In fact, it was something to be praised.

And to give you, again, to reflect how this group really was an upside-down world, a complete opposite to what we live in, the reality we live in.

Here, you know, Giselle Pellico is...