Seamus Marten

Are you like physically reacting to that?

Or are you quite calm?

Oh, wow.

Did that consciously impact the way you operated as a team manager, reflecting back on your personal experience and dealing with the athletes that you had alongside you?

I think what...

Yeah, actually, A.J.

Hackett, who unfortunately I think is currently in Hong Kong on his way back to New Zealand tomorrow or something like that, but like a great name.

That's a lot of responsibility.

When you put it in those terms of life and death, potentially, it's a lot of responsibility.

That's so good.

But did you realise at the time that that was quite a special organisation or dynasty that was in the infancy?

Did you get the personal Lone Star sponsorship for him?

And even switching from commercial to team management is a step in itself.

Was he also known as Captain Cuddles?

Yeah.

Better be the six Red Bulls that you had before.

To work out the details, to work out, I think the term is, you do all the other shit.

General manager.

Were there a lot of moments in that early stage where you did feel out of your depth?

This is the famous kind of crossroads period, isn't it, where I think as a group you decide enough's enough, we've got to change the team culture.