Sebastian Junger

Yeah.

I mean, the Iliad is it.

It's like a medical textbook.

It's like then he sliced his abdomen open and his entrails fell out and he staggered away holding his entrails and then this and then that.

I mean, it's completely bloody, right?

Visceral in the literal sense of viscera, right?

Like completely bloody.

If that's what combat was like, and I'm sure for the Native Americans here as well, like it must have been unbelievably traumatizing to the guys who did it.

Now, they were hunting cultures.

Like, for example, in North America, they were hunting cultures and they were used to gutting animals and the guts spilling out and beheading, you know, whatever.

Like, I mean, they were used to that.

You know, with animals, with hunting, they were used to blood and guts, literally blood and guts.

So maybe the transition to hunting.

Warfare is less of a distance to cross than it is for a kid who grew up in a suburb of Boston and then suddenly is in Afghanistan and it gets intimate and bloody.

The psychic distance that that person has to travel is quite far and maybe not quite doable.

Right.

That's right.

That's right.

Yeah.

That's right.