Shaparak Khorsandi

Really quite something. I don't know how any of them can be bothered. Wouldn't you, if you had all that money, just sit somewhere quietly and chill? Yeah. Just breed puppies. Wow. I know. But the thing is with Catherine is she was so alone in the world. Absolutely. Clearly had massive attachment issues. And everyone that was like related to her by blood, she lost everything.

Really quite something. I don't know how any of them can be bothered. Wouldn't you, if you had all that money, just sit somewhere quietly and chill? Yeah. Just breed puppies. Wow. I know. But the thing is with Catherine is she was so alone in the world. Absolutely. Clearly had massive attachment issues. And everyone that was like related to her by blood, she lost everything.

So it does feel that the only way she had to even feel alive is to be powerful.

So it does feel that the only way she had to even feel alive is to be powerful.

That's the only way she... Like a lot of very famous people that are bereft of unconditional love, they feel power is the only thing that will sate them. And as we all know, that always leads to disaster.

That's the only way she... Like a lot of very famous people that are bereft of unconditional love, they feel power is the only thing that will sate them. And as we all know, that always leads to disaster.

It does. It does.

It does. It does.

I have so enjoyed, Estelle, your passion for her. Thank you. It's been lovely. And you've made me like her, too.

I have so enjoyed, Estelle, your passion for her. Thank you. It's been lovely. And you've made me like her, too.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

Hello. Thank you for having me back. And I tell you what, my ADHD is no joke. When you were introducing Estelle, for a moment, I thought I'm a professor. I was like, yes, these are my achievements. I am an expert and read my book, Blood, Fire and Gold, which is brilliant, but I can't remember writing it because that's how intelligent I am.

Hello. Thank you for having me back. And I tell you what, my ADHD is no joke. When you were introducing Estelle, for a moment, I thought I'm a professor. I was like, yes, these are my achievements. I am an expert and read my book, Blood, Fire and Gold, which is brilliant, but I can't remember writing it because that's how intelligent I am.

It all went through that genuinely, Estelle. I was like, yes, this is me. That's brilliant.

It all went through that genuinely, Estelle. I was like, yes, this is me. That's brilliant.

I thought I knew her a bit, but then I was told yesterday by my history-obsessed partner, Mark Steele, that it's Catherine de' Medici and not de' Medicini. I thought that that was the way it was pronounced and that she was Italian. And there we go.

I thought I knew her a bit, but then I was told yesterday by my history-obsessed partner, Mark Steele, that it's Catherine de' Medici and not de' Medicini. I thought that that was the way it was pronounced and that she was Italian. And there we go.

Yes. All I know about them is that they weren't royals. They didn't have blue blood, but they were fantastically wealthy, which gave them status.

Yes. All I know about them is that they weren't royals. They didn't have blue blood, but they were fantastically wealthy, which gave them status.