Stephen Kelly

Well, they were good people.

And David Gore, really, really high-quality people.

So I think, Robert, and it sort of cuts across and there was privatization, all these things.

I think it's the sad thing about Britain is it's in terms of politics, very ideologically driven.

Right.

But when you run in a business and the civil service is fundamentally a business.

It's a business.

It needs to have a strategy, a vision, a plan.

And then you've got to execute the plan.

You want to have the best talent in the right swim lanes to deliver that.

And the policies any government come in with, and I'm sort of nonpartisan.

I'd work for Labour, Lib Dems, Conservatives.

You do what the government of the day and we see it ourselves as the executive.

Some of the best private sector people have been very successful.

But you're right.

I think if you don't adapt to the environment you find yourself in.

Yeah.

And I was very privileged.

I did have, you know, I'll be honest, imposter syndrome.

I'm a state school kid, working class.