Susan Glasser

I mean, the level of not only the dollar signs, but across such a wide array of fronts. And The fact that Trump sort of does it almost in front of us, flaunting us, has served in a bizarre way to insulate him. But you're right, John, I think to underscore that Trump is the beneficiary of this erosion over time phenomenon. of these laws and institutions.

And by the way, one of the most important of the post-Watergate reforms was a level of campaign finance limits, disclosure. There was even a system of public financing that had previously collapsed for our presidential general election nominees. And the Supreme Court essentially dealt the final blow to those post-Watergate campaign finance rules in its Citizens United thing.

And by the way, one of the most important of the post-Watergate reforms was a level of campaign finance limits, disclosure. There was even a system of public financing that had previously collapsed for our presidential general election nominees. And the Supreme Court essentially dealt the final blow to those post-Watergate campaign finance rules in its Citizens United thing.

And actually, last year when I went back and did a big piece for The New Yorker on the kind of Republican fundraising in this post-Citizens United era and looking at basically the final co-opting of the Republican establishment on behalf of Donald Trump in the 2024 campaign,

And actually, last year when I went back and did a big piece for The New Yorker on the kind of Republican fundraising in this post-Citizens United era and looking at basically the final co-opting of the Republican establishment on behalf of Donald Trump in the 2024 campaign,

The amount of money that was flowing into Donald Trump's coffers in that campaign, that should have been this incredible warning sign for democracy. And of course, we all know now that Elon Musk managed to spend at a minimum around $300 million essentially to promote Trump and other Republican candidates and causes last year. It's just an extraordinary amount. And I think it's the classic thing.

The amount of money that was flowing into Donald Trump's coffers in that campaign, that should have been this incredible warning sign for democracy. And of course, we all know now that Elon Musk managed to spend at a minimum around $300 million essentially to promote Trump and other Republican candidates and causes last year. It's just an extraordinary amount. And I think it's the classic thing.

The red lines were crossed before people even understood that they were red lines. And now we're living in a world where what really frightens me is, as Eric said, that most of the watchdogs are gone. Most of the accountability that had been built in our system is gone. And even when journalists like Eric at The Times are doing this great reporting,

The red lines were crossed before people even understood that they were red lines. And now we're living in a world where what really frightens me is, as Eric said, that most of the watchdogs are gone. Most of the accountability that had been built in our system is gone. And even when journalists like Eric at The Times are doing this great reporting,

The public is, even those people who don't like Trump, I fear is supine, is overwhelmed, is unable to meaningfully process how serious a blow this is to our democracy. And actually, what I'm worried about, I don't know if both of you think this as well, what I'm worried about right now is that we're actually seeing corruption being institutionalized

The public is, even those people who don't like Trump, I fear is supine, is overwhelmed, is unable to meaningfully process how serious a blow this is to our democracy. And actually, what I'm worried about, I don't know if both of you think this as well, what I'm worried about right now is that we're actually seeing corruption being institutionalized

into our executive branch and Congress refusing to operate as any kind of a check and balance in ways that will actually have long-term ramifications even beyond the personal enrichment of Trump and his family.

into our executive branch and Congress refusing to operate as any kind of a check and balance in ways that will actually have long-term ramifications even beyond the personal enrichment of Trump and his family.

You know, I mean, I take the point, but I think that we're capable of holding multiple different levels of thoughts in our head. And, you know, the difference between the petty crook who keeps cash stashed in his freezer and the most powerful man in the world accepting billions of dollars in personal enrichment while at the same time negotiating major international problems.

You know, I mean, I take the point, but I think that we're capable of holding multiple different levels of thoughts in our head. And, you know, the difference between the petty crook who keeps cash stashed in his freezer and the most powerful man in the world accepting billions of dollars in personal enrichment while at the same time negotiating major international problems.

arrangements is so fundamentally different in scale, scope, and character that it is, of course, a much greater thing.

arrangements is so fundamentally different in scale, scope, and character that it is, of course, a much greater thing.

There are sins and there are sins.

There are sins and there are sins.

Yes, it is. By the way, it's interesting. I think insider trading among members of Congress is a good example of something that they may finally be doing something about right now, which is something. But it's like handing out traffic tickets when the head of the city is a murderer. I mean, the scale of the actions that you're talking about are... so vastly different.