Tanya Mosley

Dr. Dobbin, I want to go back to something you talked about. You said earlier around diversity training. I think one of the most controversial and contentious elements of diversity, equity, inclusion today is like the popularity of those types of workshops over the last few years. Why don't diversity and say like implicit bias trainings work?

Both of you have talked about some of the pitfalls of outside companies coming into organizations to impart this training, in part because they don't know or understand the culture and some of the ways to really have that kind of conversation using the language and understanding of the components of the organization?

Both of you have talked about some of the pitfalls of outside companies coming into organizations to impart this training, in part because they don't know or understand the culture and some of the ways to really have that kind of conversation using the language and understanding of the components of the organization?

Both of you have talked about some of the pitfalls of outside companies coming into organizations to impart this training, in part because they don't know or understand the culture and some of the ways to really have that kind of conversation using the language and understanding of the components of the organization?

What have you all seen that works? Full disclosure, many years ago, about a decade ago, when I was at Stanford, I worked with social scientists to create this implicit bias curriculum for newsrooms. And it wasn't perfect. We knew it at the time.

What have you all seen that works? Full disclosure, many years ago, about a decade ago, when I was at Stanford, I worked with social scientists to create this implicit bias curriculum for newsrooms. And it wasn't perfect. We knew it at the time.

What have you all seen that works? Full disclosure, many years ago, about a decade ago, when I was at Stanford, I worked with social scientists to create this implicit bias curriculum for newsrooms. And it wasn't perfect. We knew it at the time.

but it allowed us to have conversations about things that we hadn't talked about that really did impact our day-to-day work, like homogenous teams working in predominantly Black cities, for instance, or Ivy League graduates covering working-class communities. Has research shown any value in having conversations of any kind like this about systemic racism or implicit bias in the workplace.

but it allowed us to have conversations about things that we hadn't talked about that really did impact our day-to-day work, like homogenous teams working in predominantly Black cities, for instance, or Ivy League graduates covering working-class communities. Has research shown any value in having conversations of any kind like this about systemic racism or implicit bias in the workplace.

but it allowed us to have conversations about things that we hadn't talked about that really did impact our day-to-day work, like homogenous teams working in predominantly Black cities, for instance, or Ivy League graduates covering working-class communities. Has research shown any value in having conversations of any kind like this about systemic racism or implicit bias in the workplace.

Is there space to have that kind of conversation to get to solutions?

Is there space to have that kind of conversation to get to solutions?

Is there space to have that kind of conversation to get to solutions?

There's also with the overarching political landscape with DEI now thought of as a slur. I mean, will companies continue the work in stealth mode and in other ways if there are no longer laws or mandates to require it or there's pressure? to dismantle it for fear of losing potential funding?

There's also with the overarching political landscape with DEI now thought of as a slur. I mean, will companies continue the work in stealth mode and in other ways if there are no longer laws or mandates to require it or there's pressure? to dismantle it for fear of losing potential funding?

There's also with the overarching political landscape with DEI now thought of as a slur. I mean, will companies continue the work in stealth mode and in other ways if there are no longer laws or mandates to require it or there's pressure? to dismantle it for fear of losing potential funding?

Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, I'm talking to Professors Frank Dobbin and Ella Washington, both experts in diversity, equity, and inclusion, about the nationwide dismantling of DEI initiatives.

Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, I'm talking to Professors Frank Dobbin and Ella Washington, both experts in diversity, equity, and inclusion, about the nationwide dismantling of DEI initiatives.

Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, I'm talking to Professors Frank Dobbin and Ella Washington, both experts in diversity, equity, and inclusion, about the nationwide dismantling of DEI initiatives.

This past weekend, under the Trump administration, the Department of Education launched a new website called NDEI, a federal tip line for reporting instances where initiatives are being implemented or taught in schools. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is Fresh Air.