Tim Miller

We're going to leave it there.

That was a note of optimism.

Some of us blew it.

I caught myself as one who got it wrong in those periods when Democrats were in power.

And we thought we didn't have to have the conversation even about these issues.

And we should have been debating them in a robust way.

And I don't think we would be where we are today, where these institutions and this investment has no constituency, no political constituency in America.

I lied.

I have one more question for you because it's something that I'm grappling with now.

I'm going to make a parallel.

I was watching this morning this debate happening, and it's a MAGA debate.

And there's this debate right now where on the right, you have this huge push for like, we need to respect heritage Americans only.

And we care when you got here.

And it's all part of the new kind of blood and soil nativism debate.

Within that debate, Ben Shapiro was in there and he was saying like, no, actually, that's not right.

That's not America.

Like America is a creedal nation and we have these fundamental beliefs.

Now, I think Ben Shapiro's behavior has been awful the last 10 years.

He saw Trump clearly like I did in 2015 and has gone along with it.

That said, I was like, you know –