Tom Verrilli
speaker
703 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Aug 2026
last heard 2 Aug
Tom Verrilli’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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recordings per month · last 12 monthsRecordings per month over the last 12 months — 1 in all, peaking in Aug 2026 with 1.
Appearances
And I think what goes with it, Lenny, is like you have to build the culture of the organization around that.
So for example, when we say we regret product management exists, every time we write documents about how we ship or what we're doing, we're very kind of clear that anyone can bring change forward, that we can have DRIs of new product development that is an engineer or is a designer, but that everybody goes through that same level of function of like, you've got to go through product review.
You've got to actually do the work because it is real work.
And if people don't want to do that, if they kind of want to do something else, we can always move product management around.
And so rather than mapping PMs to teams where you kind of assume that the PM will always do that, we tend to map them to kind of problems or kind of like core projects.
And that means that there will be a year more where there isn't a PM attached to a particular engineering team, even though there's lots of ongoing product work to do.
Yeah, I think there was like two parts that drove it.
And I've certainly like a lot of what I'm kind of talking about here are things that I've definitely learned over time.
You know, I spent seven years at Twitch prior to time or whatnot.
And that was very Amazon two pizza team, you know, ratio driven.
I started in the Valley at Twitter and that was similarly very like you always had this kind of very tight alignment.
And there was, God, there was a lot of alignment meeting.
So you can imagine why engineers didn't want to be in them.
And it's kind of evolved over time to understand that like actually a lot of that is just a function of like management not being able to see what's going on.
And so you hire more folks and you build more layers and your systems beget systems.
And I think what's really changing is people are realizing that it's not true anymore that the only way to get leverage is just to hire more PMs underneath you and be more senior.
That we've got a better understanding of what's happening in businesses now.
It's easier to kind of like converse directly with the code base and talk to your engineers than it ever has been.
And so you don't actually have to get into this like all scale thing.
And I don't really think consumer or enterprise is the cutting point anymore.
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