Tristan Harris

Second of all, because it's ineffable, I'm not evil for kind of making it go faster or making it happen because there's nothing that could have been done to stop it.

And so there's actually a really big thing here, which is the fundamental belief system, whether something is worth trying here or not.

That's kind of the deeper choice point.

So just to reiterate, you're not talking about locking down everyone's MacBook and saying you have to get approval from a global government before you can turn on the computer and launch an app or write some code.

You're talking about just adding this kind of monitoring and verification infrastructure for a handful of data centers with the frontier AI systems.

But what I hear you fundamentally saying is, you know, the only way we get to this regime is we have imperfect solutions, we keep building from the imperfect, we see where the holes are, we see where the failure modes are, and then we keep going.

this is so important.

Are we seeing the labs themselves advocate for and spending money on to pass policies to move in this direction, to lobby Congress, that this is what we need to do to, you know, get NVIDIA to do something.

Now, NVIDIA has its big, massive lobby that doesn't want to be regulated at all and doesn't want to be forced to do any controls on their chips because it's going to, you know, slightly diminish the profit margins or maybe people in China or other countries don't want to be running chips that they know can be

flipped on and off or have a location attestation, can you speak to, you know, we've now outlined enough of what could be a set of solutions that may be imperfect, but are a set.

And then what are the incentives at play that either push back against this or push towards it?

So this is so important and we have such short timelines.

How much money and resources and what kinds of talent in the world is working on this?

Like if this is so critical, you'd assume that there's millions and millions of dollars going into it, you know, thousands of people working on it.

What is the current state of play there?

And what would be those incentive changes?

Like if you were advising Congress right now and we could pass all the policies to incentivize this research in the ways that it would be needed, do you have a sense of what those incentive changes would be?

Amazing.

And is the main reason that we're not doing this just because of the NVIDIA lobby?

Right.