Tristan Harris

More procedures, more tests, more visits, regardless of whether the patients get healthier.

And so across the board, if we really want a better world, AI should be focused on how do we change the bad incentives of all these systems because that is what is going to unleash the better world that we really want to get to.

Okay, so we've just sort of established that intelligence isn't the bottleneck, that cancer is a different kind of disease.

It's not receptive in the same way that accelerating physics or specific molecules for infectious diseases interventions.

Now we should get to, so how would we change these perverse incentives that we had just been outlining?

And what would we do differently in our investments in AI rather than build the genie that won't actually develop the cancer drugs?

So we could be building tools that take the cost of getting through the FDA processes from billions of dollars down to even just hundreds of millions or something like that, therefore allowing many more smaller or medium-sized startups and businesses to even make it through that process.

We could be building data commons that collect more brain scans earlier for the early detection of Alzheimer's.

We could be doing more toxicity prediction, I heard you say earlier as well, of are these drugs gonna create more toxicity or not?

more pre-screening, more prediction.

There's a bunch of places where narrow AI can actually really, really help cancer.

So this whole conversation I want people to hear, you're not anti-AI, you're not anti-technology, you're actually for applying it in a totally different way that'll actually achieve outcomes as opposed to supercharging bad incentives that lead to bad outcomes.

And so basically, you're talking about just bringing down the cost of individualized treatments, which are currently very expensive, because you have to make one per person that you're trying to treat.

I'll just note that Josh, our podcast producer's father, was saved by CAR T therapy.

And so everybody who has someone in their family, my mother almost was thinking about using CAR T therapy, but did not.

You know, where that cost is prohibitive.

Imagine a world where we're just trying to bring down the cost of this thing rather than building a genie that's not actually going to uncover these brand new cancer treatments.

I just really feel like there's this mind upending sort of turning the world upside down framing to everything that you're saying.

Like, it should feel really crazy to people that we're currently putting half a trillion dollars into the genie that's actually not going to give the cancer treatments.

It's crazy.