Warren Smith

Going back to that, we can't separate the character from the narrative.

Right.

That's, you know.

I agree.

I don't play, even if it looks like it, I don't play team.

I think Jordan Peterson was right to call, and this has always stayed with me, I don't like identity politics on the left or the right.

Maybe it's because I was just listening to my favorite debate driving down here with...

Stephen Fry.

I mean, it's one of the simple debate, but it's one of the most powerful.

And that was the message.

It's like, when does the left go too far?

Yeah, the right goes too far.

I'm not... Yes, and it goes deep to psychology, evolutionary psychology, why we band together in these ways, but it's a foolish game, I think.

Yeah.

It's like the difference between the first principles and how they, those underlying dynamics versus how they manifest into politics.

I mean, I agree with you on that for sure.

Yeah.

That's interesting.

Yes, because I think the recognition of logic is intuitive, but you're right, because this is going counter against what we were just describing about that tribal evolutionary impulse to band together for survival.

Yes, breaking away, pattern disruption is...