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Wendy Zuckerman

đŸ‘€ Speaker
See mentions of this person in podcasts
1013 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

So here's what they have to do. Let me describe the needle and the haystack. So needle is the drugs. The haystack are the loads of other chemicals that would be in these decomposing bodies. Armando told us that some of the patients were smokers. So... Tobacco would have been contaminating the tissue. So would any embalming fluid used in the burying process.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

Dirty water would have been seeping into the coffins by now, leaching in all of these chemicals from the soil surrounding it. And it meant that if you were to look in liquid in their bladder.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

Dirty water would have been seeping into the coffins by now, leaching in all of these chemicals from the soil surrounding it. And it meant that if you were to look in liquid in their bladder.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

Exactly. So they get to work and they quickly realize that one of the drugs that Efren had said he used to kill patients, succinylcholine, that is basically a lost cause. It's just too hard to identify it in a human body after all this time.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

Exactly. So they get to work and they quickly realize that one of the drugs that Efren had said he used to kill patients, succinylcholine, that is basically a lost cause. It's just too hard to identify it in a human body after all this time.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

So they zoom in and try to create a test to identify Pavalon. And because they don't want to be doing this work in human bodies, they start working with something that's pretty close to a human body. Pig pigs. Do it. Yes. Yes. So Armando and his colleague get pig livers and they add a tiny bit of Pavalon.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

So they zoom in and try to create a test to identify Pavalon. And because they don't want to be doing this work in human bodies, they start working with something that's pretty close to a human body. Pig pigs. Do it. Yes. Yes. So Armando and his colleague get pig livers and they add a tiny bit of Pavalon.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

Mm-hmm. Things are about to get a little bit grosser. So because they would take this pig liver Pavillon milkshake... And in some cases, let it sit and decay for months, making it more like what these bodies that have been decaying would be like. At this point, Armando and particularly his boss, Brian Andreessen, are up to their elbows in decomposing pig livers.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

Mm-hmm. Things are about to get a little bit grosser. So because they would take this pig liver Pavillon milkshake... And in some cases, let it sit and decay for months, making it more like what these bodies that have been decaying would be like. At this point, Armando and particularly his boss, Brian Andreessen, are up to their elbows in decomposing pig livers.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

Word on the street is that the lab did smell kind of gross. What did it smell like?

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

Word on the street is that the lab did smell kind of gross. What did it smell like?

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

So decomposing bodies, whether it's pigs or humans or whatever, they emit these chemicals. And the two that he talked about, cadaverine and putrescine, they give off that particular smell of death, that smell that you described. And here's how Armando described it.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

So decomposing bodies, whether it's pigs or humans or whatever, they emit these chemicals. And the two that he talked about, cadaverine and putrescine, they give off that particular smell of death, that smell that you described. And here's how Armando described it.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

So while covered with this smell of death... They take the, we're going to go back to the decaying pig milkshakes that have been spiked with Pavalon. And they pass them through this particular contraption that's called a solid phase extraction polymer. It looks a bit like a plastic syringe and it has a kind of filter in it or what's called a cartridge.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

So while covered with this smell of death... They take the, we're going to go back to the decaying pig milkshakes that have been spiked with Pavalon. And they pass them through this particular contraption that's called a solid phase extraction polymer. It looks a bit like a plastic syringe and it has a kind of filter in it or what's called a cartridge.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

And inside it, they're basically trying to separate Pavalon from all the other crap that is in these tissue samples. But what you have to know is that there's different cartridges out there that are used to isolate different chemicals. I had never thought about how one would isolate chemicals from a human body. Mm-mm.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

And inside it, they're basically trying to separate Pavalon from all the other crap that is in these tissue samples. But what you have to know is that there's different cartridges out there that are used to isolate different chemicals. I had never thought about how one would isolate chemicals from a human body. Mm-mm.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

And so basically they're pushing all tiny bits of samples through these little syringes. And what the game is to find the exact right cartridge that's going to trap Pavalon. But leave out everything else or as much as possible of everything else. And so Armando's colleague has been working on finding the right cartridge. Armando's focusing on another piece of this puzzle. It's really tough.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

And so basically they're pushing all tiny bits of samples through these little syringes. And what the game is to find the exact right cartridge that's going to trap Pavalon. But leave out everything else or as much as possible of everything else. And so Armando's colleague has been working on finding the right cartridge. Armando's focusing on another piece of this puzzle. It's really tough.

Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén
Holiday Break: How a Nuclear Lab Helped Catch a Serial Killer

Just passing this milkshake through these filters could take days depending on how decayed the tissue is or how much mucus is in it. May turns into June. They're pulling 16-hour days. It's just late night after late night.