Will Carless

with our show, extremely normal.

I mean, the whole point of what we're trying to do is to describe these movements that have come from the fringes to the mainstream.

I don't think you can describe Crunchy Moms as an extremist movement anymore.

I think that they're deeply embedded in conservative politics today.

They're terrified.

I mean, I don't think I can stress that enough.

I mean, there is a huge amount of fear out there in the world of immunology and virology.

I mean, people are terrified.

I mean, we're in uncharted waters.

I would describe it with an analogy.

It's kind of like the climate crisis.

It's like we don't know really what the impacts are going to be, but we know, at least the people who study this stuff know that they're very worried about it, but they don't know how it's going to kind of manifest itself.

The basic problem is, as Dr. Howard describes, is that if we lose herd immunity or if these viruses are able to somehow change and develop because we no longer have that herd immunity, then that could spell new diseases.

It could spell new strains of these viruses that we don't know about yet.

It's uncharted waters, and it's very, very scary for the people who are involved.

I think it's definitely both.

I mean, look, everybody we spoke to from the expert to the kind of people on the right to the people on the left, like everybody agrees that there's a problem with the medical system in this country in general, but that there's also a problem with the way that doctors and experts talk to patients and talk to the general public.

One of the reasons that the Crunchy Moms movement and the Maha movement and the sort of vaccine skeptic movement has been able to flourish, I believe is because of this perception of doctors as being in this kind of ivory tower and not being in touch with the general public.

And that's, of course, something that politicians have been very eager to kind of grab hold of.

You know, there's these sort of elites over here that are running everything and that they're sending us the wrong way and that you guys are being led.