William de Rumpel

But, Anita, you tell me that in the 21st century, or the late 20th century, she is rehabilitated.

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So Anita and I are now going to debate Bolivar because there's not a huge distance between us, but I think we do have slightly different positions.

You have a much more romanticised view of this young man.

Would you ever go for a handsome Latin Fabio from the revolution?

OK, so let me make the counter case.

So I would argue that.

that he is full of windy sort of manifestos and he's on record declaring that the blood of our citizens is varied.

Let it be mixed for the sake of unity.

But when you actually look at what happened, he keeps the structures of Spanish colonialism completely intact.