When Kasia Bukowska's horses refused to cooperate, she thought she was failing. What she discovered instead changed everything she understood about trauma, healing, and why we stay stuck. Kasia is a Polish equine-assisted therapist, equestrian coach, and artist who has spent years learning how to use horses as healing partners for clients working through deep emotional pain - including survivors of narcissistic abuse, people in the middle of high-conflict divorces, and anyone whose nervous system has been shattered by years of coercive control. But here's the most important thing she says right at the start of this conversation: you don't need a horse. The lessons horses teach — about nervous system regulation, about authenticity, about the way your energy affects everyone around you — apply to your dog, your cat, a rabbit, even a tree. If you've ever wondered why you can't seem to calm down no matter how hard you try, or why you walk into a custody evaluation dysregulated even though you desperately want to present well, this conversation is going to give you a completely different lens for understanding what's happening in your body. Lisa and Kasia go deep on how horses act as biological mirrors — literally responding to your internal state in real time — and what that reveals about the patterns keeping you stuck. Including a story about a giant shire horse and a little wooden pole that will stay with you. In this episode: 00:00 - Introduction: Who is Kasia Bukowska and why horses?01:45 - The one thing Kasia says immediately: you don't need a horse!03:30 - Kasia's background: equestrian coach, equine-assisted therapist, and artist05:20 - How she discovered the connection between her paintings and her horses' messages08:10 - What actually happens in an equine-assisted therapy session12:00 - Why Kasia works with horses at liberty (no halters, no riding) and what that makes possible16:30 - How a horse responds when you're reliving trauma vs. when you're regulated19:45 - "The way you do one thing is the way you do everything" - what this means for your healing24:00 - The cavaletti story: what a ton of horse taught one client about softening instead of pushing30:15 - How addiction, self-harm, and deep shame show up in equine sessions33:40 - What to do if you see horses on the side of the road and can't stop36:20 - How to use any animal (or a tree!) as a grounding tool right now40:10 - Can you do equine therapy online? Kasia explains how44:30 - How to find equine-assisted learning and equine gestalt practitioners near you47:00 - Where to find Kasia: Instagram, websites, and upcoming webinars Find Kasia Bukowska:Instagram (coaching): @equestrian_kasha_bukowskaInstagram (art): @kasha_bukowska_artCoaching & therapy: hearthorseexperience.comArtwork: kashabukowska.com Been There Got Out:We are Lisa Johnson and Chris Barry: veteran high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists who help targeted parents navigate one of the most painful experiences a person can face. We fill the gap between what family law attorneys are trained to do and what therapists understand about the legal system. If your ex has a personality disorder, if you're fighting to protect your relationship with your children, or if you're trying to rebuild your life after years of coercive control, you are in the right place! #equinetherapy #traumahealing #narcissisticabuserecovery #nervousystemregulation #highconflictdivorce #equineасsistedtherapy #healingafterabuse #beentheregotout

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