Former Meta COO & Author Sheryl Sandberg Talks Workplace Diversity
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Pleased to say joining us right now is Bloomberg Originals host and executive producer Emily Chang. She joins us right now with Sheryl Sandberg. Emily.
Romaine, thank you so much. And Cheryl, thank you so much for joining us. I know this ambition gap is troubling to you. Essentially, women are leaning out. They're deciding they don't want to be promoted because it doesn't seem worth it. After all the work that's been done, all the talk, what do you think broke?
Well, let's start at the top. So not all women are leaning out and not all companies. But what our report shows this year, this is our 11th year, is that about half of companies no longer prioritize advancement for women. And 21% of those companies say women's career advancement is a low or no priority at all. And those are the companies that participated in the women in the workplace report we do with McKinsey. And so these companies in many ways are the best of the best. And then we do see that ambition gap, but only when women don't get the opportunities and support they need.
How does this put companies at risk? Or is the conventional wisdom that this is better for business not ringing true?
I think the conventional wisdom should be and is what's true, which is that when you get the best out of your whole workforce, you're gonna do better. So what's happening is that women face more barriers at every level of the career. Entry level, we call it the broken rung and we see it every year. For every 100 men that get promoted, 93 women 60 black women, 82 Latinas. That's because we hire and promote men based on potential and women for what they've already proven. So of course, women can't prove they're a manager. Then at the senior levels, our report shows this year that at the same levels, a man is 70% more likely to get tapped for leadership training. Think about what that says. You're a future leader, come to leadership training.
And so This is only happening in the companies that aren't doing the right thing. When women get the full support and the same stretch opportunities, they're not leaning out at all. And so it's a question of economic productivity. Do we want to get the best growth in our economy? Do we want to get the best out of our workforce? We're at a fork in the road, and companies have a decision to make.
The Trump administration is pushing policies that explicitly try to incentivize women to have more babies while simultaneously weakening workplace protections. Do you see these natalist policies, as they are called, as pressure on women to return to traditional roles? Or is it support for families?
I mean, look, women can have as many kids as they want and still have to go to work. I think what we forget in a lot of this is that the great majority of women do not have the choice to be a full-time mother and a full-time spouse.
What is the ambition gap and why is it significant?
Now, I feel we sometimes come up with new language for old ideas. And I want to be clear, if you can afford to be a full-time spouse and a full-time parent as a man or a woman, and you want to do that, I think that can be deeply fulfilling work. But we've got to remember that most women don't have that option. They have an economic reality that they have to wake up in the morning and leave their home to earn money to support their families. And so, again, new language for old ideas, trad wife. That's just telling these women that have to leave their home that it's going to harm their marriages and their kids.
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