We all know chocolate is sweet. The way that it's made—not so much. From deforestation and climate change to child labor and heavy metal contamination, cocoa farming leaves a lot to be desired. But what if we could make cocoa powder without having to chop down the rainforest and engage in so many other unsavory practices? That's what California Cultured is working on now. The Davis, California-based startup has raised $16 million to grow cocoa cells inside of bioreactors and has already produced some pretty tasty chocolate from this process, as I can personally attest. This isn't their CEO Alan Perlstein's first shot at growing food inside of bioreactors. As you'll hear in this episode, Alan was part of the team that a quarter century ago grew the world's first-ever cultivated meat (goldfish cells funded by NASA). He went on to found Miraculex—now Oobli—which grows sweet proteins inside of bioreactors. After running the company for six years, he's now embarked on a journey to divorce cocoa production from farming the rainforest, and he shares that story here. Can they compete on cost with farmed cocoa? How long before their cocoa makes its way onto the market? Most importantly, does it taste as good as the chocolate we eat today? These are all questions we bite into—and more—in this conversation! Discussed in this episode Our past episodes with the RAND Corporation and Oobli. Our World in Data greenhouse gas emission chart showing chocolate similar to beef. Alan endorses starting your company through SOSV. California Cultured signs agreement with Japanese chocolate giant. Cocoa consumption's effect on muscle synthesis. More about Alan Perlstein Alan Perlstein is a visionary entrepreneur with over 20 years of experience in the food technology industry. From his early career in one of the first cell-cultured meat labs to founding California Cultured, Alan has consistently pursued sustainable innovations to solve global food production issues. His passion lies in addressing the environmental and ethical challenges of traditional agriculture by using cutting-edge plant cell culture technology to create real chocolate and coffee without the harmful impacts of deforestation, child labor, and toxic chemicals.

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