Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Bombshell tonight, Nick Reiner's high-profile lawyer jumps ship. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I wanna thank you for being with us. Hollywood legend Rob Reiner and his wife, Michelle, they didn't deserve this. It's bad enough that their throats were slit in their sleep.
The official COD is multiple sharp force injuries, a.k.a.
Chapter 2: What happened during Nick Reiner's court appearance?
likely that the knife slit their throat.
They ruled it the mannerist homicide. Multiple sharp force injuries, this is something that is driven by rage.
In the last hours, just as everyone is assembled in the courtroom for Nick Reiner to be arraigned in the double murders of his father, Rob Reiner, and mother, Michelle Singer Reiner, Alan Jackson, high-profile lawyer that has represented the likes of Kevin Spacey, Harvey Weinstein, Karen Reid, waltzes in and jumps ship. Leaves. Why? Did Mr. Green not show up? Listen.
As you know, my name is Alan Jackson. This morning, I had to withdraw as Nick Reiner's counsel. Circumstances beyond our control, but more importantly, circumstances beyond Nick's control.
You were just hearing Alan Jackson speaking, claiming I had to withdraw. I had to, like he had a gun to his back. Circumstances beyond our control. And more importantly, circumstances beyond Nick, as in Nick Reiner's control. I wonder what that could be. Possibly the siblings refusing to pay for the defense of the man they believe killed their father and mother.
Joining me in all-star panel, but first, straight out to Alexis Tereschuk, crime stories investigative reporter standing by at the courthouse. Alexis, really? He didn't know before this morning that he was not going to go forward defending Nick Reiner. It just dawned on him as he stepped up to the podium. That's total BS. He knew ahead of time.
But what this does is allow more time before a not guilty or guilty plea or NGBRI, not guilty by reason of insanity. This is just the defense attorney's best friend. Delay, delay, and delay. Tell me everything.
So his Alan Jackson appeared in court today and he asked the judge, he said, I would like to be removed as counsel of record for this case. And he said, quote, I have no choice but to ask for this. And so that was what how it started in the court. And the judge agreed. She said, OK, you can be removed as counsel of record again outside.
He then said it was beyond his control and it was beyond Nick's control in court. Specifically, I had no choice.
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Chapter 3: Why did Nick Reiner's high-profile lawyer withdraw from the case?
He was seated in the inmate's cage. He was wearing a brown jail uniform and a white T-shirt underneath, and it appeared that his hands were... HANDCUFFED IN FRONT OF HIM. THEY SPOKE WITH HIM THROUGH THE GLASS, AND THEN THEY ASKED THE JUDGE THIS. SO, YES, THEY HAD SPOKEN ABOUT IT.
IN FACT, NICK AT ONE POINT STOOD UP IN THE CAGE, AND HE LOOKED AROUND THE COURT, AND THEY CALLED FOR A WOMAN TO COME OVER. THIS WOMAN IS KIM GREED. SHE IS A PUBLIC DEFENDER, AND SHE IS ONE OF THE TWO PUBLIC DEFENDERS THAT HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED TO HIS CASE.
OKAY, ALEXIS, YOU CUT OUT ON ME JUST FOR ONE MOMENT. DID YOU SAY THAT REINER, NICK REINER, LOOKED AROUND THE COURTROOM AND SAW WHO?
He appeared to look across the courtroom to his new public defender. This woman then stood up. He looked very tall.
He looked over his judge. I need to let that soak in what you're saying. So this guy that everyone is saying is incompetent, doesn't know what's going on. He's insane. He knew to scan the whole courtroom and look over and, oh, there she is. There's my new lawyer. The other one quit. Okay, tell me what else you observed because everything you're telling me is giving me new information.
So Reiner scans the courtroom, he spots Kimberly Greene, and he recognizes her. Tell me exactly what happened.
So he's talking with his three attorneys. Again, he is still in the inmate cage. He never comes out of the cage into the official courtroom. He isn't there. He is talking. They are all speaking with each other. They're talking. And then he stands up. He's very tall. He's actually, probably when he's standing, taller than all of his attorneys.
He looks across the courtroom, and then they say, Kim, come here. And this woman goes over. We learn subsequently that that is Kim Green, and she is the public defender assigned to this case. So he looked around and looked for her.
Guys, I want to go quickly to Chris Melcher joining us, celebrity lawyer, partner at Welser Melcher and Yoda. Deep experience in complex family law litigation as well as criminal law. Melcher, thank you for being with us. I can think of a few reasons that a lawyer would jump ship right there at the time of the arraignment.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of Reiner's mental health on his defense?
That from our friends at Fox News. Okay, let's dissect what we're just hearing. There are very, very complex, serious issues associated with this case. In other words, how am I getting paid? Okay, those need to be thoroughly but very carefully dealt with and examined and looked at and analyzed.
That came from the Department of Redundancy, Redundancy Department, very carefully dealt with and examined and looked at and analyzed. In other words, I'm going to have to investigate his checking account to see if there's a daddy's trust fund in there anywhere. There was a continuous of the arraignment. Nothing happened substantively. All we're doing is waiting for my check to come through.
I think that's what he was saying right there. Back to you, Alexis Tereschuk, joining us, crime stories investigative reporter at the courthouse. Did anybody seem surprised at all?
No. And in fact, the judge asked Nick the only time he spoke in court. She said, Mr. Reiner, do you agree to this? And he says, yeah, I agree to that. That's exactly what he said. It was a specific word. So he knew it was agreed upon. And in fact, Kimberly Greene said outside of court after the hearing, she said this was discussed last night.
So they all were coming into this knowing this this morning. And Nick said he agreed. He said, yeah, I agree to that.
Take a listen to more of what Jackson had to say. What we've learned...
and you can take this to the bank, is that pursuant to the laws of this state, pursuant to the law in California, Nick Reiner is not guilty of murder. Print that.
Okay, you know what? He's very wily. He's a good lawyer. And, you know, you can't blame a private attorney for not taking a case. It's going to include thousands of hours of his or her own work, plus their legal team and their investigators and their experts if they're not going to get paid. But, frankly speaking, to you, Melcher,
Public defenders get a bad rap, but they are some of, if not the most experienced trial lawyers in the courthouse. They don't get to say no to a case they don't like. You don't want to represent a child molester? Sorry, it's your case. Now get on it. You can't get out of it as a public defender. That's your job to represent people that have no representation.
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Chapter 5: How does the change in Reiner's jail status affect his case?
And these are people who have dedicated their lives. They're very passionate. Like you say, they get paid very little. They don't get to choose their clients and they're handling really horrific cases. and have substantial experience. So he can be well served. He's not going to get, Nick's not going to get the polish of Alan Jackson, but he'll get good defense.
Now, maybe some money opens up later on somehow. Maybe there's a probate court action that's involved in trying to open up some trust funds. Maybe then there's some attorney that goes there. Maybe there's a private attorney who wants it simply for the sake of publicity. And that could happen too.
You know what Alan Jackson has that a lot of other lawyers don't have, Melcher? And I witnessed this up close when I was a co-anchor, co-host with Johnny Cochran. We both started Court TV on the same show, Cochran and Grace. And, of course, everything that came out of his mouth. was a lie for his clients. Of course Simpson did it. Of course everybody he represented did it.
When you see Johnny Cochran walk in, everybody goes, oh yeah, they did it. They did it. Okay. Somehow they paid for Cochran. But he had what I called then the it factor. He had it. You know, those people, they walk in the courtroom and no matter what's happening, everybody turns around and looks at them and It's you can't learn it in law school. Nobody can teach it to you.
You have it or you don't. It's a presence. It's a star quality. It's a showboat quality. And I don't mean that in a bad way. It's an it factor. That's the only way I know how to describe it. It's not necessarily a charisma because some people that have it are real a-holes, but they've got it. But he has that. He has that, just like Cochran had it. Do you agree or disagree with that?
That's the thing money can't buy.
Absolutely, Nancy. And Alan Jackson does have that presence and he is a showboat, but he also has something to back it up with and highly experienced as a prosecutor. And in his short involvement in this case, I mean, he went to the house with investigators to look at the scene and I'm sure work this thing up. very well. So yeah, he is going to deliver, but it comes at a great cost.
And it just seems like maybe Nick couldn't find that money.
So Sidney Sumner joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter, along with Alexis Tereschuk at the courthouse. Sidney, what do we know about the new lawyer, Kimberly Green, from the Public Defender's Office? Well, Ms. Green is one of two public defenders assigned to this case, and she's been with the L.A.
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Chapter 6: What does the evidence reveal about the Reiner murders?
I'm here to make three points, and then I will not be taking questions afterwards. In our criminal justice system, every defendant is entitled to a lawyer who will zealously represent their interests and do so effectively.
So too is Nick Weiner. Whether it's Alan Jackson, someone from the public defender's office, or any lawyer, he's entitled to that lawyer, and we'll make sure he gets that lawyer. Second point, in the process of dealing with that lawyer, we will make sure, the DA's office will make sure
that that lawyer is provided with full discovery of all the facts that pertain to this particular situation, whether it's interviews, whether it's any type of video, whether it's any type of expert report. We'll make sure that that lawyer gets the facts necessary to effectively represent their client in a court of law. And thirdly, we are fully confident
that a jury will convict Nick Reiner beyond a reasonable doubt of the brutal murders of his parents, Rob Reiner and Michelle Singer Reiner, and do so unanimously.
Thank you very much.
You were just hearing Nathan Hockman, the elected district attorney, and you heard the press immediately peppering him with questions about the death penalty. Now, there are several ways that the defense can go here. They can claim mental incompetency, which does not mean insanity at the time of the double murders.
mental incompetency, and I've handled many of them, is when the defense lawyer says, he is too incompetent to aid me in his defense. He just can't help me. Therefore, the defendant would have to be hospitalized and hopefully rehabilitated through counseling, through therapy, through medication, until they were able to aid their lawyer in their own defense. That's mental incompetency.
There is not guilty by reason of insanity, which means Reiner would have been insane at the time of the murders. The old McNaughton test is the general rule of insanity in our country, which means did you know right or wrong at the time of the incident? And I'm going to get into it with our panel, whether he did or did not know right from wrong at the time his parents were stabbed. I say no.
Yeah, he knew it was wrong. So you've got mental incompetency, which can buy you some time. You've got NGBRI, not guilty by reason of insanity. You've got plea guilty. That's not going to happen. And you've got not guilty. Those are the choices. Those are the only choices at this juncture. Straight back out to Alexis Tereschuk joining us from the courthouse.
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Chapter 7: How are public defenders viewed in high-profile cases?
And B, they sure aren't going to pay for his defense. And that is why Alan Jackson's off the case.
Absolutely. And that's a common sense reaction. You would think that family members, siblings, that they're not going to support the person that allegedly murdered their parents. But I do go back to the access that Alan Jackson got to the home. And it was maybe like on a Tuesday or something after the crime, right after the LAPD forensics left.
He walks in and I think it might have been a Reiner assistant that opens the gate. So who allowed that? There was no court order for it that the defense could have received. It was pre-arraignment access to that home.
It was also the home of Nick Reiner. Couldn't Reiner give consent for him to come into the home? It's his home, too. He lived there.
I mean, I suppose as an occupant, but then the other people could have just said, no, we're not, we're just not letting you in. And it would be then a civil matter. The police aren't going to intervene with that. You'd have to get a court order.
What other people? Nobody else lived there. The other siblings lived elsewhere. It rode me across the street, but there was no one to say, hey, we live here and you can't come in. He lived there. He wasn't just an occupant. That was his home along with his parents. He could have been. Oh, I'm so glad you said that, Melcher.
That tells me it's very likely he was in his right mind to allow Alan Jackson in. consent to come into the home, to hire Jackson and to give him access to the home. He was actually making an investigative decision. He could have allowed that consent.
Yeah, it's really remarkable how he got in there. And then back to, I mean, the Sunday evening before he got arrested, he goes into the convenience store and he buys Gatorade. So obviously he knew the difference between right and wrong. He knew he couldn't just come and take that Gatorade and walk out with it. He knew he had to pay for it.
You're seeing that video that Melter's talking about from our friends at CBS. Joining me right now, special guest, Heather Michaels. She is not just an investigative reporter, a producer. She's a social justice advocate. But she is a neighbor and a dear friend of the Reiner family. Are you surprised that Romy and her brothers did not show up to court today, Heather?
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Chapter 8: What can we learn from the reactions of Reiner's family?
There was blood in the bathtub. There was blood all over the bathroom. There was blood on the bedsheets.
What do we know? So much more evidence to sift through in the murders of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer Reiner.
LAPD responded to a residence, the residence of Rob and Michelle Reiner, located in West Los Angeles Division. At that location, they found two deceased adults, a male and a female. Through the night, working with the coroner's office, they were able to identify them definitively as Rob and Michelle Reiner.
Unable to get in touch with their parents all day Sunday, Romy Reiner decides to make a house visit. Around 3.30, Romy lets herself into their Brentwood home and discovers a horrifying scene. Rob and Michelle Reiner stabbed, and their throats slit. Romy dials 911 in a panic, but EMTs can do nothing.
And that earlier sound from law enforcement is from our friends at Fox 11. Joining me in all-star panel, straight back out to Alexis Tereszczuk, joining us at the courthouse. I heard you describe what Nick Reiner was wearing. Normally, I don't care about fashion, but in this particular case, I find it extremely probative. He was not wearing a suicide smock. Is that correct?
That is correct. It was just appeared to be a white T-shirt and a brown uniform. Interesting, the other inmates who had been in there prior to his case being heard were in blue. He was in brown. So there was that difference between them. And again, his head was completely shaved and his face looked clear. He didn't have any markings or anything from what I could see.
And he was, again, looking around the court, chatting with his attorneys. And then after Jackson was recused by the judge, Kimberly Greene came over to him in the court And she stood outside the inmate cage and they were again speaking to each other. We couldn't see what she was saying, but they were speaking to each other. And then the judge asked him again, is this what you agree to?
And he says, yeah, I agree to that.
I'm going out on a limb here. Sidney Sumner, a Crime Stories investigative reporter, also joining us. Sidney, I imagine that the other inmates were in GP, general population, while Reiner of Suicide Watch is still under high observation. And the uniforms may very well be different.
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