Chapter 1: What happened on day 24 of Nancy Guthrie's disappearance?
This is an I heart podcast guaranteed human crime stories with Nancy grace.
Hi there. I'm coming on to say it is day 24 since our mom was taken in the dark of night from her bed. And every hour and minute and second and every long night has been agony since then of worrying about her, fearing for her, aching for her, and most of all, just missing her, just missing her. We know that Millions of you have been praying.
So many people have been praying of every faith and no faith at all, praying for her return. And we feel those prayers. Please keep praying without ceasing. We still believe. We still believe in a miracle. We still believe that she can come home. Hope against hope. As my sister says, we are blowing on the embers of hope. We also know that she may be lost. She may already be gone.
She may have already gone home to the Lord that she loves and is dancing in heaven with her mom and her dad and with her beloved brother, Pierce. and with our daddy. If this is what is to be, then we will accept it. But we need to know where she is.
Chapter 2: How is the family responding to Nancy's potential passing?
We need her to come home. For that reason, we are offering a family reward of up to $1 million. for any information that leads us to her recovery. All of the information about this reward and the details is in the caption below. You can call the 1-800 tip line. You can be anonymous if you want. Someone out there knows something that can bring her home. Somebody knows.
We are begging you to please come forward now. We also know that we are not alone in our loss. We know there are millions of families that have suffered with this kind of uncertainty. And for that reason today, we also are donating $500,000
to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children for their work in helping families who are coping with loss and actively looking for those who are lost. We are hoping that the attention that has been given to our mom and our family will extend to all the families like ours who are in need and need prayers and need support.
So please, if you hear this message, if you've been waiting and you haven't been sure, let this be your sign to please come forward, tell what you know, and help us bring our beloved mom home so that we can either celebrate a glorious, miraculous homecoming or celebrate the beautiful, brave and courageous and noble life that she has lived. Please be the light in the dark.
Thank you. Our friend, Savannah, in a heartbreaking plea for help, not just combining with her family to offer up to $1 million. for information leading to her mother, but also donating $500,000 to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. And in her pain, her pain, her immense pain, she mentions other people that are suffering tonight.
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Chapter 3: What details do the investigators have about the porch video?
Whoever knows about Nancy Guthrie's whereabouts that sees that and does not act must have a heart of stone. Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, missing. Day 24 of agony for the family. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. What can we learn from this video? How did this person get in? How did they exit?
I'm wondering if there had to be two people.
I think this is going to be the tip of the iceberg. We're going to see more. We're going to have a better idea as to what happened.
Here at Crime Stories, in conjunction with you, yes, we read every tweet, every Facebook, every Insta, have been wondering about the two guys or the two outfits or the same guy with and without a backpack. How did that happen? We have speculated. We have discussed it. We have analyzed it repeatedly. Why?
When I'm trying a case, I lead with my strongest evidence in opening statements, in putting a witness up on the stand, in closing statements. I hit it, hit it, hit it, and quit it. That's almost all we have is the video of the porch guy, but I guarantee you it's not all that there is. In multiple cases, one piece of evidence can reveal so much.
And that is why everyone is combing over and over and over the porch video. Let's see the two guys. I still don't think it's two guys. But two guys, it was argued specifically originally by Dave Mack. Two guys, one with a backpack, one without, both of them seemingly similarly outfitted. But now, a new theory has emerged.
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Chapter 4: What theories are emerging about the suspect's identity?
The new theory is that image was from an earlier skulking episode. Okay, Dave Mack joining us, Crime Stories investigative reporter. What do we know? And don't tell me what Nanos is saying. Okay. Don't care right now about that. Just tell me what we know.
Well, Nancy, the videos from the front porch are not timestamped. So we don't know as the layers of this video are pulled. It's kind of like painting on a house where a house gets painted year after year and it has layers of paint. The same thing is true here with the video. They're having to pull back the video layer by layer and lightly peeling it apart. And they cannot get a timestamp.
We don't know the daytime or anything. We only know what we're watching in front of us there. You see the guy with the gloves and the backpack and the gun holster and all that with the weeds. The other picture could have come from the same night, the same time, or on another day. And that's what is being speculated about. We have been watching this since the very beginning.
Our team in New York had these separated early on. It seems like we're the only ones that have been paying attention to having two separate looking photos of the alleged kidnapper at this point. So everything is speculation, Nancy. I could still be right. They could be brothers or it could be the same guy.
OK, so now you've thrown in that they're not just identically dressed, that they're brothers, OK? I don't know how you've deciphered that. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Straight out to special guest joining us, you know him well now, Scott Eicher.
He is a digital and forensics expert, founding member, and I say it every night because I cannot stress it enough, founding member of the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team.
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Chapter 5: What role does digital forensics play in the investigation?
What is that? Anachronism? CAST. C-A-S-T. What does it mean? They are responsible for doing the data dump, getting all the cell phone data, Wi-Fi data that was occurring in Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood at the time she goes missing and more. People are amassing it, and then they have other agents analyzing it. He is now at Precision Cellular Analysis.
Scott, not only that, homicide in Norfolk, Virginia, 12 years. Scott, what do you make of what Dave Mack just explained? I believe he's referring to the scratching process that you first told us about.
yes he is referring to the scratching process now you remember initially the sheriff's office said they couldn't get the video because the gutheries did not have any subscription to that nest camera system at their house well cass kind of came in later on and at their sheriff's request dug into that and we've had experience dealing with google and we know google very well from what we other things we do
We went back to Google and said, hey, look, even though it's not being sent, there's no subscription and it's not on the family's phones, is it hiding somewhere in your system? They were able to dig deep into the cloud related to the camera at the front door and pull this video. No timestamps, no date stamps.
So that's where we're running into with this speculation on whether this second guy was there days before, hours before, or that other picture is after the guy was on the porch with the gun. We just don't know when it occurred. So we're making speculation on the sequence of events.
Okay, let's analyze it both ways. Okay. Guys, this is what you have to do when you try a case. You have to take a piece of evidence and figure out what can I prove, if anything, of what probative or evidentiary value is it? Okay, we've got two images. To me, common sense is it was the same night. So let's go with that possibility.
If it's the same night, it's either two people dressed the same, which is highly doubtful in my mind, not to Dave Mack, but in my mind. But in one photo, he has the backpack. In the other, he doesn't. What does that prove to me? It proves he got the backpack from somewhere.
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Chapter 6: How does the community support families of missing persons?
Did he have a car waiting? Can we get the car on video? Is there an accomplice in the car? Also, the time. Did he come up and skulk around earlier and then go back and get the backpack? Because he definitely had the backpack when he was entering or trying to enter the door and take down the door cam. That tells me, think it through, everybody. Hey, I'm not your school teacher.
Jump in if you have an idea, for Pete's sake. You're the brain trust. That tells me, if this occurred on the same night, that the backpack photo was second because he was entering with the backpack. So he was there skulking earlier without the backpack. Okay, Scott Eicher, follow it through to its logical conclusion. What does that, if anything, tell you?
We can't just sit here and look at the pictures and not figure it out for Pete's sake. So what do you glean from that, Eicher?
What I gleaned from that is a little bit different than you, Nancy. I see the first time he comes up, he has the backpack, he has the gun, and he gets the brush. He then gets into the house, in my mind, after wearing all that stuff. He's gone back out, leaving the backpack in the house temporarily.
He's gone back out, and he's coming back to the doorway without the backpack, and they capture him again. because why would you- Why would he come back?
He's gone in and out. He's coming back to the scene? What?
No, he's coming in and out. He's probably either dealing with Nancy and getting her in and out and getting his stuff in and out, or he's dealing with his accomplice that he's meeting outside and coming back and forth.
Okay, Dave? I think the same thing. Nancy, I'm looking at this a little bit different.
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Chapter 7: What insights does a psychoanalyst provide on the case?
Oh, good grief.
No, no, no, no. Look around. Uh-uh. You're not in your den at home watching TV with your children. You're on crime stories. You can't say what he said. No. Have an original thought. What? Think, think, think. The Lord gave you a brain. Use it. Nancy.
All right, look, when they reached out to neighbors, investigators reached out to neighbors for videotaped surveillance film, January 11th, 9 p.m. to midnight. This could be the reason right here. Maybe they already knew the suspect had been in the hood looking around.
And on that date and time, they want to see if they can find this guy walking in the neighborhood, driving his car, what have you. But that could have been from that night. Again, purely speculation. But it could be the same guy on a different night. And that could be the answer to the question, why do they want video from January 11th, 9 p.m. to midnight?
That's not pure speculation, Dave Mack. That is an educated opinion. There's a big difference. You're not just reading the tea leaves or looking at a crystal ball. You're applying what you know to the facts that you're seeing. And I think that's a very good theory.
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Chapter 8: What are the implications of the new DNA evidence found?
Okay, straight out to Dr. Bethany Marshall. We've got two routes we can take with these photos. One, it was from an earlier date when he was skulking around, which shows premeditation to the max. It also, Bethany Marshall, if true, if it is from an earlier date, That gives us a bigger window of obtaining evidence.
And what I mean by that is, if he was there on an earlier date, maybe he didn't hide his vehicle so well because he was just skulking and casing. Maybe he... I don't know, walked in front of other cameras. Maybe he had a cell phone turned on that evening. It could be a wealth of information if it was an earlier stakeout. See what I mean? But what does it tell you guys?
Dr. Bethany Marshall is a renowned psychoanalyst. Joining us out of Beverly Hills tonight, she's the author of Deal Breaker. You can see her on Peacock, and you can find her at drbethanymarshall.com. She spends her life analyzing people's behavior. So what would that mean to you, let's go with Dave's theory, if he had been there before on an earlier date?
Well, it tells me, first of all, that he has a preoccupation with Nancy Guthrie, as I've discussed with you before. This is somebody who is fascinated by her for some reason. Either he's targeted her before, he knows he's going to target her. Maybe he just wants her money. Well, that's what I mean, like a big payday of some sort. And Nancy, there's something very odd about his body language.
I cannot quite put my finger on it. It's as if he's nonchalant in some strange way. And it makes me as interested in what we're not seeing as what we're seeing. What are we not seeing? We're not seeing how he's casing the rest of the house. We're not seeing what he's doing with that backpack.
Does he have it on and then he sets it in the dirt and then he puts it back on again, sets it in the dirt? Is he sending it down, opening it, closing it? What does that tell us about evidence? What is in that backpack? What about the sloppy gun that is just hanging over his crotch? What does he actually think he is going to do with that gun? Obviously, there is nothing but an 84-year-old woman
in that house? Why does he keep touching it? Why does he think he's going to need it? There are no police officers around at that time of night. So what's the relationship between the gun, casing the house, and abducting an 84-year-old?
I think I know the answer to that, Bethany. Remember Richard Allen in Delphi? who jacked the gun in front of the little girls, Abby and Libby, to scare them. An idiot that he was didn't realize he jacked out a bullet. And that bullet was traced back to that gun in his home. It's intimidation technique.
And but while she was talking, Scott Eicher, I had a thought and I'm going to disagree with you, which, you know, I enter this disagreement with trepidation because you're the cast expert. But. You said the first trip was going to the door cam with the gun on and then putting all that away and coming back in. I disagree. And this is why something Bethany just said.
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