Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Breaking news. Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, missing day 13. This as, believe it or not, another missive regarding Nancy Guthrie's kidnap has just been received. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
Since this case began, Sheriff Chris Nanos has been in the spotlight. And now it's being reported that Savannah Guthrie told the sheriff investigating the abduction of her mother, Nancy Guthrie, she doesn't need him.
Chapter 2: What new information did TMZ receive about Nancy Guthrie's kidnapping?
Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos. He has been under a lot of scrutiny since day one of this investigation. He spoke to Fox News and said that he has talked and texted with Savannah and that she said she has her own people and didn't need him. He goes on to say that the family members have been involved in the investigation. They've been very cooperative.
He actually says, whatever we've asked for, they've done. But then he adds this. It was getting crazy out there with allegations about the family. You can't accuse people of horrific crime like that and not have any facts behind it. Now, he says that, but in the same interview, he also says no one is really ever ruled out as of today.
Joining us, an all-star panel, but straight out to Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter, a new missive. regarding Nancy Guthrie? What happened, Dave Mack?
TMZ received its third email from a guy who claims he knows the identity of Nancy Guthrie's kidnapper, but he's changing the rules. If you remember, in his last note, he said he's not being taken seriously and they will not hear from him again. He wanted one Bitcoin that was worth about $68,000 at the time. Now, this new email says he's contacting TMZ because he doesn't trust law enforcement.
He's using TMZ as an intermediary, telling authorities, you don't trust me, I don't trust you. So now he's suggesting the reward being doubled to $100,000 is because of him. He actually says it's to discredit me. That's why they raised the award to $100,000. Now he says that he wants $100,000, the FBI reward, but here's how he wants it. He's asking for a fraction of Bitcoin worth about $50,000.
And in return for that, he will then give up the information. And then he expects another $50,000 in Bitcoin. He promises he will not withdraw the first $50,000 until the kidnapper is arrested. That is the third email from this guy. By the way, one important change to all of this in his email. He says that when he gets the initial payment,
Then he will give up the name of the main individual, referring to the main individual suggesting that there are accomplices, as we've mentioned before in his previous emails. There you go, Nancy, the third email.
Also, Dave Mack, isn't it true that he refers to the current state of Savannah's mother? We don't have specific details. Harvey Levin is not releasing that. But he is referring to Nancy. But I can't assume that he is saying that she is alive and well or that she is alive. Otherwise, this would be an entirely different report right now.
Yeah, because it's not being very specific about it. But again, he does refer to the, quote, current state of Nancy Guthrie. But he's not alluding to whether it's good, bad. It's just that she is alive, but nothing else.
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Chapter 3: How is the investigation being impacted by the family's involvement?
law enforcement is taking him seriously uh they haven't said publicly that it's a hoax uh but there are some red flags you know you have to wonder why if he has this information why he's not calling silent witness because silent witness now has a reward for a hundred thousand dollars So if you have the information, there you go.
You know, supposedly, you know, there's information that he may not want to publicly give his information because he doesn't want to be known as a snitch. But, you know, if you want the money, you're going to have to take that chance.
There's nothing that he said so far, though, that makes me think that he is truthful, that he has veracity, that he hasn't said anything specific that we don't already know yet.
Okay, we don't know that or not know that, but you're right. It is being entertained. And the last hoaxster was not called a hoaxster until after he had already been arrested. But you just reminded me of something. You take or I take my witnesses as I find them.
I have put on the stand nuns, priests, virgins, dope lords, drug addicts, alcoholics that were literally drunk at the time they took the stand. There was nothing I could do about that. You take your witness as you find them.
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Chapter 4: What does the latest email reveal about the kidnapper's demands?
This guy may be a nut in the vernacular. But what if he does know something? Let's just go out on that limb of credibility for just one moment to discount him because of his behavior, the wording of the missives, the way he's kind of haggling over the price, the way he's taking credit for the doubling of the reward from 50 to 100,000. Yes, that's bizarre. That's outlandish.
But what if he does know something? And something I always argue to juries, Josh Colesrood, who do you think the defendant is hanging around with? The folks at the Vatican, no, they're not hanging out with the church deacons or the rabbi. They're hanging out with people just like them, birds of a feather flock together.
So it would make sense that the actual perps hanging out with not the law and orderly type, but a guy like this.
yeah exactly and you make some excellent points about you know why he might be telling the truth here and regardless law enforcement has to either cross him out as a legitimate lead or not they need to investigate him for a crime that is you know giving false information uh or a false ransom note so so to speak
And if it turns out that it's not a false ransom note and they can't charge him with the same crimes they charged the other Yahoo, maybe he's legitimate. And until we find out one way or another whether he is legitimate or not legitimate, they need to take this seriously.
Straight out to Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us. And boy, do we need a shrink. She is a renowned psychoanalyst, author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock. And you can find her at DrBethanyMarshall.com. Dr. Bethany, there's got to be a psychological name for this. He suggests the reward has been doubled from $50,000 to $100,000.
because of him, that it was just a move designed to quote, discredit me. What?
This reminds me of the media campaign for the Cosmopolitan in Vegas. Their tagline is, just the right amount of wrong. which is what this guy is, just the right amount of wrong. But you know, Nancy, what's fascinating to me is I feel like I kind of have a sense of the profile of this person, which could be helpful. Whoever this person is, I'm pretty sure it's male, the way he's bargaining.
There's a shallow, immature quality, you know, give me 50K, but I won't spend it until, you know, blah, blah, blah. He is very excited about
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Chapter 5: What role does DNA evidence play in the investigation?
As a forensics guy, if these samples had gone directly to Quantico, where I know they know the drill and how to process it, and they've got great partners on the outside that they can source for things like investigative genetic genealogy. And so I don't understand what the problem is here.
As you well know, because you worked for the feds for a while, Nancy, the force that they can bring to bear in a situation like this, it's like you're cutting your head off to cure the headache. I don't understand it. It makes no sense to me. The inside of that glove, though, if we talk about that, For anybody at home, think about this.
If you've ever even had on a pair of winter gloves, what do your hands do? Well, they sweat, right? And you might not even be aware that your hands are sweating. When you peel those gloves off, you're not talking about touch DNA then. You're talking about a rich source of DNA. It's not like a partial DNA strand, you know, that has to be amplified and all this other stuff.
We're talking about sweat that could be inside of this glove. That's very, very important here in how it's handled, how it's packaged on the front end, how it's delivered, and then how the exam can be done. So you're talking about two different types of potential DNA here.
Also, we were told that there was a glove inside the home. We now hear that being walked back. But I firmly believe that there was DNA evidence inside. All it takes, Joe Scott, is one hair. Now, another thing. Oh, guys, the video we were showing you earlier is from KOLD, our friends at KOLD. There's also the aspect of fibers. That's why we need that truck.
We need that gray truck, if it's gray, white, beige. Because Nancy Guthrie was bleeding profusely, I believe from the nose. There's no way that they're going to be able to get all that blood out of the truck. It's almost impossible. When you go in there with Luminol or Blue Star, which is next-gen Luminol,
you'd have to have it, I guess, cleaned by somebody from the crime lab, right, to get it really clean. But think about the potential fibers from his home. This is how Wayne, one of the ways, Wayne Williams' case, a serial killer in Atlanta that killed young boys and teens, how he was caught. And my coworker, Joe Droolite, brilliant lawyer,
led the charge on getting that evidence in for the first time in the world. And it was admissible. It was carpet fiber from Wayne Williams' home, his parents' home where he lived at that age, and fiber from his vehicle. The fiber in the home, I want to say it was green, but it was shag. That was only made, yeah, a certain time period. And that color and the microfibers, yes, very limited.
It could be traced back to their home and it was on the bodies. Also fibers from his car on the bodies. So there's a plethora of DNA fiber fibers evidence that could have been obtained. I pray to God in heaven the capture of that evidence was not bungled.
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