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Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Breaking news. Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, missing day 18. This as another threatening, much more threatening ransom note is received. And we learn, contrary to what Sheriff Nano said just 24 short hours ago, the search has extended into Mexico. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
Tonight, we are learning the search has extended into Mexico.
Chapter 2: What updates are there on the search for Nancy Guthrie?
This as another ransom note has been received. This ransom note offers a different Bitcoin address than the others. It is also much, much more menacing. Joining me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now to Andrew Black. Joining us, former special agent in charge of the Tucson office of the FBI, 27 years with the FBI.
former felony prosecutor in Chicago, never a lack of business. They're currently chief of University of Hawaii Department of Public Safety. Andrew Black, thank you for being with us. What do you make of the FBI now stating they are venturing into Mexico? They are asking Mexico to share information.
It indicates to me that they've got new leads.
Chapter 3: How has the FBI expanded the search into Mexico?
So many leads have come in. And as you know, the FBI also put out a stern warning against people fabricating kidnapping notes or ransoming notes. These things take time to run down, and it takes energy and resources from the task force trying to locate Nancy Guthrie. So these types of leads just add to the workload of those on the ground trying to find her.
And I suspect this venture into Mexico is based on additional leads that they've received, including information in one of the ransom notes.
As of right now, I believe it is around 40,000 tips that law enforcement has received. I'm sure at least half of those are bogus. If you want to see what type of tips are coming in, just go online. Take a look at Twitter. Take a look at all of the zany theories. Now, on the other hand, some pretty good ideas are surfacing as well.
There is a theory right now still, and I'm sure the FBI and local law enforcement is besieged with theories about botched guns. So, can we just put that to sleep now, as in euthanasia, that put to sleep? This is not a botched robbery. This is not a burglary gone wrong. Andrew Black, in a nutshell, why do you believe that Nancy Guthrie was not a random victim?
No, I'm glad you're emphasizing that because all the indications and the task force work in this case, they believe they're working a targeted victim, Nancy, that based on the evidence M.O. of the individual.
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Chapter 4: What new ransom note has been received and what does it demand?
He was suited up from head to toe, concealing his identity. He had a backpack. It looked like it was filled with gear. It does not have any of the ear markings of a robbery or a crime of opportunity. This looks like it was planned. And we do know there's an abduction. Past that, it's very difficult to say what we have following all these
ransom notes that one was definitely proved to be a hoax, individuals being prosecuted, and these others that keep rolling in to TMZ and other outlets.
When you say it's not a robbery, obviously the guy's bringing in A ton of stuff. His backpack is stuffed to the gills with robberies. You take things out.
Chapter 5: What insights do experts provide about the kidnapping case?
You don't carry them in. And let me go out to Josh Colesrood, veteran criminal defense attorney, former felony prosecutor, now founder of Colesrood Law Offices. Josh, I've never seen a burglar or a robber. And the difference is a robber robs from an individual. A burglary is when someone enters a dwelling or business without consent with the intent to commit a felony therein.
That felony could be theft. That felony could be or ag assault. The felony could be a number of things, but typically a burglary is a lawful entry with intent to commit a theft.
Yeah.
And when the burglar, and this is statistically overwhelmingly true, when the burglar comes in and sees a person, they're like, ah, and leave. They don't want contact with the victim. They don't want to be identified. They want to come in and steal and leave or come in and rape and leave. And if they do see a victim, they either hightail it or they kill the victim so they cannot be identified.
It's two plus two equals four.
Exactly. And Arizona actually distinguishes a burglary of an occupied structure versus a burglary of an unoccupied structure. Now, you can look at the FBI statistics about how infrequent, in fact, there has never been a recorded case
where there's been a burglary gone wrong where the burglary suspects end up kidnapping an elderly woman and keeping her alive it just it's a unicorn it just doesn't happen and we know that she was alive when she left because the blood trail uh led to the door and then suddenly just stopped like they were putting their hand over her mouth uh and this has there's no indication
No signs and symptoms that this was a burglary gone wrong. So we do need to look at motive here. And it's good that we can cross this motive off. Now we have to look at was this based on money? Was this based on something else? And only once we determine motive can we kind of narrow down who the suspects may be.
To Scott Eicher joining us. He is a founding member of the CAST group. cellular analysis survey team at the FBI. Twenty-two years, also a former homicide detective with Norfolk Police, now with Precision Cellular Analysis. Scott, you and I have seen so many cases, prosecuted, investigated cases. I don't mean just talk about them. I mean prosecute them.
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Chapter 6: Why do investigators believe Nancy was targeted and not a random victim?
you could have forensic unknowns. Like who? Who gets in? So I don't know the specific requirements for the state of Arizona, but it's going to be, it's not gonna be someone that's picked up for some misdemeanor offense.
It's going to be particular violent felony offenses that a person who has simply been arrested for this crime and not yet convicted, their profile can go into that Arizona database. Another thing that Arizona has that not very many states have is the ability to do familial searching.
And so sometimes when people hear that, they think, oh, we're talking about genetic genealogy, but this is totally different. This is the ability to search the Arizona database for a near match. So we've already searched, we know that we don't have a hit on this DNA profile, but let's look for someone who is closely related, maybe a brother, or a father.
And Arizona is one of only 12 or 13 states that allow for that sort of searching. So I hope that they do conduct that. That's not something that's automatically done. That's something that has to be requested. So hopefully they will have that conducted because that opens up the database for a whole new category of individuals.
Guys, you're hearing Susanna Ryan speaking about her line of expertise, DNA. Another question. We now know the FBI has reached its tentacles into Mexico. Is there an international DNA database, Susanna?
There is the Interpol database. So that is, I think it's over 80 countries that are part of Interpol database. where they will upload qualifying DNA profiles, mostly unsolved cases like this or other felony cases. And I believe there are over 280,000 profiles in the Interpol database. Mexico does participate in that program. Wait, how many did you say? Over 280,000 profiles.
Wow, in the Interpol database, and that includes Mexico.
It does. Now I will say that Mexico in general, they do have a DNA database, but it's not on the same level as our CODIS combined DNA index system database. A lot of what they're focusing on in Mexico is identifying missing persons or if they have unidentified remains, that's a lot more of their focus than the criminal investigative side.
And it's not all connected at a national level at this point.
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