Show notes
Episode Description:
Welcome to another episode of The Disruptors Podcast! In this episode, Rob interviews the author of the best-selling book, 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos, clinical psychologist Jordan Peters.
Rob and Jordan cover predictors for entrepreneurial success, the importance of dynamic opposition in a business partnership, and just how crucial marketing and sales skills really are, even for creative artists. Together, Rob and Jordan break down the necessary evils of proper scheduling, the benefits of selling directly to consumers, and why you should always have someone around to say no.
Key Takeaways:
When analysing potential business success, Jordan breaks things down into these categories:
-Simple jobs: Where you train and then repeat what you’ve learned. Intelligence predicts how fast someone can learn a simple job but their levels of conscientiousness predict how well they will do it.
-Complex jobs: Involve demands that change on a regular basis and cannot ever be fully “learned.” According to Jordan, IQ is the main predictor of success in a complex job.
Jordan then breaks things down further into two very different business temperaments:
-Managerial and administrative: Conservative, skeptical, organized, risk-averse, who are much more likely to say “no.”
-Entrepreneurial: Liberal, excited, creative, lateral-thinking, risk-takers who are trait-open.
Jordan explains that one is not inherently better than the other, but that both of these types of people need each other in order to operate a successful business. Creativity, inspiration, and energy are crucial elements but that creativity needs to be organized and focused.
Rob agrees and points out that, “Entrepreneurs tend to hire versions of themselves at first, instead of being more self-aware and like, ‘I’m chaotic and disruptive and what I need is order.’”
But he also emphasises not going too far in the other direction and getting held back by a stifling managerial influence.
Rob and Jordan then transition to the importance of knowing how to properly sell a product and understanding that making a good product is only the beginning of a very long road. The assumption that a good product will sell itself is just not true.
However, Jordan warns that trying to sell your product through a big company instead also has drawbacks, mainly that they are naturally risk-averse, move very slowly, and may never even happen at all.
Instead, Rob advocates for selling directly to consumers because:
-You’re always at the decision-maker
-You get near-immediate feedback
-It can be more rewarding knowing your product will change an individual’s life
Jordan agrees with this but also says that if you’re selling directly then you absolutely have to understand how essential sales and marketing are. Jordan continues on saying that the artists and creatives who have contempt for the “business end” of things are only going to hurt themselves and never see any proper monetization from their creative works.
Rob’s solution for people who struggle with marketing and sales? Find someone who can: “To anyone listening who isn’t really a natural sales or marketing person, partner or align with someone who is and you’ll probably make a great team.”
From there Rob and Jordan agree that dynamic opposition makes for good business balance, someone who’s there to dream big and take risks and someone who can be conscientious and know when to say “no.” Having too many people with either personality in one company is never going to end well.
They briefly switch to the value of structure and being held to a schedule, and if you can’t be held to a schedule, finding someone who CAN hold you accountable to it.
In short, in order to give your business the best opportunity for success, have people whose strengths and weaknesses complement each other. Managerial, conservative types may feel constraining, but often that constraint can hold you back from making mistakes and provide protection.
Best Moments:
Rob: “Your downfall is likely to be organizational administrative ability. So it’s often useful for entrepreneurial types to pair themselves with administrative types.”
Jordan: “Most new ideas are stupid, dangerous, and counterproductive.”
Rob: “And they’re the ones that change the world!”
Jordan: “If you’re a naive entrepreneur, you think ‘well, all I have to do is make a great product.’ No, that’s about five percent of it!”
Jordan: “It’s really, really hard to be a good salesperson. And people like that are unbelievably rare and unbelievably valuable.”
Rob: “Discipline, while it’s hard, it’s rewarding at the end when you feel that sense of deep happiness when you’ve gone through it.”
About the Guest:
Jordan Peterson is a Canadian clinical psychologist and a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto. He is a frequent lecturer and author of the best-selling book, 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos, which has sold over two million copies since its release in January 2018.
[Business, mindset, entrepreneur, disruptors]
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Rob Moore is an author of 9 business books, 5 UK bestsellers, holds 3 world records for public speaking, entrepreneur, property investor, and property educator. Author of the global bestseller “Life Leverage” Host of UK’s No.1 business podcast “Disruptors”
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