TPP 455: A Conversation with Dr. Naomi Fisher on Neurodivergence, PDA, and Self-Directed Learning
episode
Full-Tilt Parenting: Strategies, Insights, and Connection for Parents Raising Neurodivergent Children
39 min
1 speaker
8 chapters
transcribed 8 hours ago
Transcript
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Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
What is the focus of the conversation with Dr. Naomi Fisher?
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I'm Debbie Reber, and this is Full Tilt Parenting, a podcast for parents raising neurodivergent kids. Today, I'm talking with Dr. Naomi Fisher. She's a clinical psychologist who specializes in trauma, autism, and alternative education. Naomi is the author of several powerful books, including Changing Our Minds, When the Naughty Step Makes Things Worse, and The Teenager's Guide to Burnout. And the book we're going to be talking about today is called A Different Way to Learn, Neurodiversity and Self-Directed Education. Naomi brings a deep insight into how traditional approaches to education and behavior can fall short and what it really looks like to support our children in ways that prioritize autonomy, mental health, and connection.
So in this conversation, we really dive into self-directed education. including what not only helps neurodivergent kids, but especially those with a PDA profile. We're going to be talking about why agency is so important in learning, how traditional schools can chip away at a child's self-worth, and what it looks like when we truly support demand avoiding kids in ways that work for them. So here's my conversation with Dr. Naomi Fisher. Hey Naomi, welcome to the podcast.
Hello, it's lovely to be here.
It's lovely to be in our virtual room together and I'm really looking forward to exploring your work. But before we get into the meat of our conversation, would you just introduce yourself in your own words? Maybe as part of that, your personal why, like how did this become the focus and passion that you move through the world with?
So I'm Dr. Naomi Fisher. I'm a clinical psychologist. And I think I am passionate about helping children learn in the ways that work best for them. That's so complex how it became what I do, what I do now. There are so many different things going in. But I think one of the key experiences that I had myself as a child was My parents moved around the world a lot, and I went to 11 different schools when I was growing up. And that left me with a healthy degree of skepticism, I think, about how we educate children, but also what we think is essential when we educate children.
How did Dr. Fisher’s personal schooling experiences shape her view on education?
Because one of the things I noticed, even as a child and a teenager, was that all these schools... operate in very much the same way, but they also had certain things that they thought were really important and essential. And without that thing, the education would fall apart. And yet they were different things. So just like in the UK, we're really into school uniform. I went to schools where our skirts lengths was measured and you were sent home if you had the skirt that was too long or too short. And then I went to other schools where there was no school uniform, no monitoring or anybody's clothing and clothing wasn't really an issue. Just stuff like that made me, I think, start to question. And then when I had my own children and saw them growing up, I started to think.
So I'd already trained as a clinical psychologist at that point. A lot of what I learned about psychology and about child development and how they learn changed. isn't really reflected in how we educate our children. And there seems to be this disconnect between the developmental psychologists and what we know about how children grow and learn and what's actually happening in our education system. And often when those two things collide, when the children don't fit into the education system, what's happening is that that problem is being located in the children So we're saying these children aren't doing things right, or they're not behaving correctly, or they've got mental health problems. And then they're sent to see somebody like me, a clinical psychologist.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the focus of the conversation with Dr. Naomi Fisher?
0:00–2:35
2
How did Dr. Fisher’s personal schooling experiences shape her view on education?
2:35–6:24
3
Why did she decide to leave the NHS and home‑educate her children?
6:24–9:56
4
What role does agency play in learning for neurodivergent children?
9:56–15:50
5
How does self‑directed learning differ from traditional schooling?
15:50–19:57
6
What is the definition of self‑directed learning for listeners?
19:57–25:27
7
Why is self‑directed education especially effective for children with PDA?
25:27–31:32
8
How can parents handle judgment and maintain the parent‑child relationship while using unconventional approaches?
31:32–39:33
Speakers
1 identifiedMore from Full-Tilt Parenting: Strategies, Insights, and Connection for Parents Raising Neurodivergent Children
TPP 266a: A Conversation with Poet and Advocate LeDerick Horne
TPP 522: A Whole Child Approach to ADHD with Phil Boucher, M.D.
TPP 091a: A Conversation With Steve Silberman About His Book “Neurotribes”
TPP 521: A Conversation with Dr. Peter Gray About Restoring Childhood
TPP 253a: Advocate and Author Jonathan Mooney on Why Normal Sucks
TPP 520: Dr. Özgür Bolat on Why Rewards Backfire and the Real Science of Motivating Kids