Psilocybin in Serious Illness: A Podcast with James Downar, Ali John Zarrabi and Margaret Ross
episode
GeriPal - A Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine Podcast
46 min
2 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 9 hours ago
Transcript
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Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
What is psilocybin and how does it work in the brain?
Welcome to the Jerry Pow podcast. This is Eric Wanera. This is Alex Smith. And Alex, we have a great lineup today. We're gonna be talking about new research in psilocybin in serious illness. It's a lot of sss Yeah, the
uh the uh the letters are swimming in front of me because I did my dosing in advance. Did you yeah I'm I'm doing
micro dosing, Alex. I'm fine. I'm fine.
Good afternoon.
Our next guest is Margaret Ross, who's a clinical psychologist and researcher at St. Vincent's Hospital in Melbourne, Australia. She's joining us at 6 a.m. her time. Margaret, thank you so much for joining the Jerry Powell podcast.
Thank you for having me. Bleary eyed, very happy to be here.
And our last guest is Ali John Zarabi, who is an internist and palliative care doctor and researcher at Emory. Ali John, welcome to the Jerry Powell Podcast.
Thank you for having me.
And I met all three of you and watched you do a presentation about um psilocybin research at the Congress International des Sens Palliative Miguel.
Uh I apologize to all the Quebecwas and anybody who speaks French for that pronunciation. You can send directly to Alex any email feedback. Um We got a lot to cover. We're gonna be talking about three new trials on psilocybin therapy. But before we do, we always start off with a song request. James, I think you got the song request for Alex.
Yeah, right on. So uh in in our trial, because of security reasons, we are required by Health Canada to store the the substance in a special secure area in my office. And um one of my neighbors, uh my office green door is green, and one of my neighbors pointed out that there's a song called The Green Door. Um I'm actually gonna show you a picture of the green doors just so you can see it. Um it's it's It's there. It is a green door. For all those listening,
we just saw a very green door. That's
that's a green door. And uh you you really probably don't want to ask what's going on behind the green door, but you can sing a song about it.
Who who who who's the sound by?
Oh gosh, I don't know. Uh Jim
Lowe, it looks like. Jim Lowe from the fifties
Tim, if you're still with us, I apologize.
Midnight, one more night without sleep. Watchin' till the morning comes creepin'. Green door, what's that secret you're keeping? There's an old piano and they play it hot behind the green door. Don't know what they're doing, but they laugh a lot behind the green door. Wish they let me in so I could find out what's behind the green door.
That was fabulous. Fun choice,
James. Thank you.
Let's jump into the green door. That is psilocybin. So we've done a podcast. We've done two podcasts on psychedelic assisted therapy. Not just on psilocybin, though. We did one with Ira Bioch. We'll have a link to that. And we had one with who was on that again? Um
we had Theora Semino, who was a Palliative Care Fellow at the time. Stacy Fisher.
Yeah. And Brian Anders. Yep, there
you go.
We'll have links to both of those. So if you want to do a deeper dive into psychedelic uh assisted therapy, you can do it there. Today we're going to be talking about psilocybin and specifically. We did talk a little bit about what it was in the past podcast, but maybe we could just start off with a little refresher. What is psilocybin? Margaret, I'll turn to you first. You
turn to me. Oh my gosh. I was hoping I was like if I go quiet, the others are jumping, for sure. Uh so psilocybin is a compound that is uh a psychedelic compound that is found in what is colloquially known as magic mushrooms. So in the psilocyb genre of magic mushrooms. And it has been used for many, many years in indigenous ceremony in Oaxaca to kind of occasion mystical uh spiritual type experiences and it kind of made its way into medicine. Probably around I'm gonna say the fifties, after there was a fairly interesting uh time life article uh that was published, Gordon R. Wasser. Am I saying that right? R. Gordon Wasser. I always get yeah.
Why are current treatments for psychological distress in serious illness inadequate?
So Wasser and his uh wife, who's an amateur mycologist, went to Oaxaca and they uh experience these magic mushrooms. And then they came back and they wrote about these experiences that they had, which were quite extraordinary and uh
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is psilocybin and how does it work in the brain?
0:00–4:44
2
Why are current treatments for psychological distress in serious illness inadequate?
4:44–11:37
3
How do the three recent clinical trials differ in their dosing strategies (micro‑dosing vs. assisted therapy)?
11:37–18:27
4
What were the primary outcomes and measurement tools used in the trials?
18:27–24:02
5
What side‑effects and safety concerns emerged during the psilocybin studies?
24:02–29:58
6
How did participants experience integration and support from the multidisciplinary team?
29:58–36:06
7
What are the next steps for research and scaling psilocybin therapy in palliative care?
36:06–40:40
8
What final thoughts and take‑aways do the hosts and guests leave listeners with?
40:40–46:55
Speakers
2 identifiedMore from GeriPal - A Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine Podcast
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