Stump the VitalTalk Communication Experts: A Podcast with Gordon Wood, Holly Yang, Elise Carey
episode
GeriPal - A Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine Podcast
48 min
5 speakers
6 chapters
transcribed 9 hours ago
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What is the purpose of the VitalTalk book and why was a new edition needed?
Welcome to the
Jerry Powell podcast. Alex. Y you you usually say your name.
I forgot how to run a podcast. Welcome to the Jerry Powell Podcast. This is Eric Guidara.
This is Alex Smith.
And only three hundred and something podcasts in, uh I'm figuring things out still. Al too with us today.
We are delighted to welcome the Vital Talkers who uh all contributed to this book, which I'll hold up for those of you watching on YouTube. It is called Navigating Communication with Seriously Ill Patients, Balancing Honesty with Empathy and Hope by Bob Arnold, Tony Bach, James Tulski, and our three guests today. First, Gordon Wood, who's a palliative care doc, an associate professor of medicine at Northwestern. Gordon, welcome to the Jerry. Yeah.
Thanks for having me.
And Holly Yang, who's a palliative care doc and co-director of the UC San Diego Scripps Health Palliative Care Fellowship and immediate past president of AHPM. Holly, welcome, Jerry Powell.
Thank you.
And Elise Carey, who's a palliative care doc and geriatrician and associate professor of medicine at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. Elise, welcome to JerryPal.
Thank you.
And welcoming back as guest host Ann Kelly, who's a social worker in Palliative Care. Anne, welcome back.
Thanks. Happy to be
here. So we got an exciting topic today. We're gonna be talking about a little bit about this book, Vital Talk, and thinking about um the navigating communication with seriously ill patients by titled The Vital Talk Method. So we'll talk about what that is. But before we jump into that topic, Gordon, I think you have a song request for Alex.
I do. So my uh song request is uh The More You Say the Less It Means by John Moreland. And let me know why did you choose that song? So I I I think it speaks to one of the big lessons we've learned, um, which is that You know, docs and other health professionals often sort of give way too much information and spend a lot of time talking. And one of the hardest things is to distill it down to a sentence or two about what is information, what does it mean, and then be quiet and listen. So thought this was the perfect song for this podcast.
See, Alex, that's what I was trying to do with my intro. I was trying to be even more quiet.
Oh.
The more you say the less it means. Living in the in between. In between the golden blue. In between the world and you In betweens where you were born. With all your little heart strings torn. There's nothing wrong with in between. The more you say less in me.
Wonderful. Nice. We got a lot to cover. We want to get into specific scenarios because we're going to try to stump the experts with challenging communication scenarios around serious illness. But before we do, I'd like to start off with with you, Gordon. Um, why did you all decide to rub write an updated book? on navigating communication with serious ill patients. Did did the things really change over the course of what of like a decade that it felt like it was really important?
Uh so I I think a lot changed. You know, a few things happened since the first edition was was written. A global pandemic, uh some uh uh sort of awakening about the role of racism and privilege and power. And even just sort of the way we're sort of teaching and the the content has changed. You know, some of the foundational stuff that we teach in the course, things like remap. Um, which is a uh conversation map for how to discuss goals of care late in the course of an illness. That was not in the original book. Um, so I think lots of reasons to to write an update.
Nice. And as we think about Vital Talk, some of our listeners may not know what Vital Talk is. And in the very top of this book it says the Vital Talk Method. What is the Vital Talk Method or what's the Vital Talk approach? Ліс
I can start and then I would love to hear what Holly and Gordon have to add. The fundamental philosophy is that we see communication skills as learnable and teachable, right? That it's not something that you're intrinsically born with. or magical, that you can actually teach people to be better communicators by teaching them skills.
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Chapters
6 chapters
1
What is the purpose of the VitalTalk book and why was a new edition needed?
0:00–9:18
2
How does the VitalTalk Method define communication skills, frameworks, and capacities?
9:18–25:52
3
What strategies do the experts recommend when an interpreter or team member becomes emotional during a serious‑illness conversation?
25:52–35:06
4
How should clinicians handle a chaotic family meeting where surrogates are in conflict about the patient’s care plan?
35:06–42:32
5
What are the best practices for teaching and debriefing trainees after a difficult communication encounter?
42:32–45:18
6
When is it appropriate to name an emotion versus providing factual information in a patient conversation?
45:18–48:04
Speakers
5 identifiedMore from GeriPal - A Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine Podcast
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