Why you should care about the shakeup at NIH: Sean Morrison, Ken Covinsky, Stacy Fischer

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GeriPal - A Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine Podcast 47 min 2 speakers 8 chapters transcribed 10 hours ago

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Why should clinicians and caregivers care about the NIH shake‑up?

Eric Widera 0:00

This podcast is CME eligible. To learn more about CME, Alex, what do they do?

Alex Smith 0:05

They can either go to the CME tab associated with this episode, or they can go to jerrypal.org backslash CME.

Eric Widera 0:14

And on to the show. Welcome to the Jerry Powell podcast. This is Eric Widera. This is Alex Smith. And today, Alex, we got some guests. We're gonna be talking about what's happening at the NIH and bigger pictures. We'll talk about actually our topic. We got a fun thing about that coming up. But before we do, who is with us today?

Alex Smith 0:37

So we are really happy to have three great guests who are all returning guests to Jerry Powell for this kind of emergency podcast that we have uh quickly put together here. First, we have Stacy Fisher, who's a geriatrician and palliative care doc, and researcher and leader at the Cancer Prevention and Control Center at the University of Colorado and science advisor for the American Academy of Hospice and Palliative Medicine. Stacy Welcome back to JerryPal. Thanks. And we have Sean Morrison, who's a geriatrician and palliative care doctor and researcher and chair of the Department of Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine at the Icon School of Medicine at Mount Sinai. Sean, welcome back to the JerryPal podcast.

Sean Morrison 1:17

Thanks, Falks. Great to be here.

Alex Smith 1:19

And Ken Kavinski, who's a geriatrician and researcher in the UCSF Division of Geriatrics. Ken, welcome back to JerryPal. Great to be here.

Eric Widera 1:27

And before we go on to the topic about the shakeup at the NIH and why we should care about it, somebody has a song request for Alex. Stacy, is it you? I do. What's the song?

Stacy Fischer 1:40

Yeah, I would like to request Times They Are a Changin' by Bob Dylan. Why did you pick this song? I think when you hear the lyrics, it is it could not be more perfect about what we're trying to do and times they are changing and we have also the power to change the times. Wonderful.

Alex Smith 1:59

Alex, I can't believe we haven't done this. I Googles unless Google's failing me, we haven't done this. This is a great choice. Um, here we go.

2:12

Come gather round people wherever you roam. And admit that the waters around you have grown, and accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone. If your time to you is worth saving, then you better start swimming, or you'll sink like a stone. For the times they are a changing.

Eric Widera 2:41

Thank you, Alex. Thank you, Stacey.

Alex Smith 2:43

And let me just say, Sean and Stacy sent me like eight songs. Which would be great for this podcast. And because time was pressing, I chose the one that seemed like most obvious and easiest to play that we hadn't done before. Thank you, Stacey.

Eric Widera 2:59

All right, we're gonna try something new for this podcast. And Sean, I'm gonna start off with you. Is uh, you know, most of our listeners, like when you look at like the amount of people listen, like the most amount of people listen to our Jerry Powell podcast happened in the beginning of the podcast. So imagine each one of you, you're on an elevator with our Jerry Powell listener. You don't know anything about them. You don't know who they voted for. You don't know if they're left leaning, right leaning, anywhere. But you got two minutes or less. It's on the first floor of the elevator. It's going up to the twelfth. They just press that button. What's your elevator speech here about why they should care about what's happening at the NIH with these new rules?

Eric Widera 3:40

Sean.

Sean Morrison 3:41

Well, first of all, Eric, I work at Mount Sinai. So getting to the twelfth floor on the elevator takes about five minutes. So I want five minutes, not three, if there are two, if that is okay with

Eric Widera 3:54

you. And you remember that. I remember I was at Sinai. So I'll give you three and a half. I'll give you three and two. There you go. It's a Saturday, so it's a little positive. It's a Saturday.

Sean Morrison 4:02

So um What's going on and why do we want to talk about it? I think what precipitated this podcast is the Office of Management and Budget proposing changes into how grants are both reviewed and funded at NIH. And what happens in terms of federal policy is the Office of Management and Budget is responsible for setting the rules by which all agencies act.

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Chapters

8 chapters

1 Why should clinicians and caregivers care about the NIH shake‑up? 0:00–8:32 2 What are the proposed OMB rule changes that could alter NIH grant reviews? 8:32–18:30 3 How would political appointees taking over grant decisions impact research integrity? 18:30–29:24 4 Why is the removal of binding peer‑review especially dangerous for geriatric and palliative care research? 29:24–35:17 5 What are the consequences of banning DEI, gender, and health‑equity research? 35:17–39:25 6 How could restrictions on international collaboration hinder disease‑outbreak responses? 39:25–43:30 7 What challenges do new publication‑fee rules pose for junior investigators? 43:30–45:16 8 How can listeners effectively comment on the OMB proposal and influence policy? 45:16–47:20

Speakers

2 identified

Alex Smith 7 min Eric Widera 6 min

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Topics in this episode

Alex Smith 2 UCSF 1 Bob Dylan 1 Eric Widera 2 Office of Management and Budget 2 Jerry Powell podcast 2 Mount Sinai 2 University of Colorado 1 Sean Morrison 2 Ken Covinsky 2 Hartford Foundation 1 National Institutes of Health 1

Source

Recorded18 Jun 2026

Publisherrss.libsyn.com ↗

Transcriptspeaker-named · 100+ languages

Handlerec:20524455

Show notes

Emergency Podcast! Our guests Sean Morrison, Ken Covinsky, and Stacy Fischer believe that you should care deeply about the proposed shakeup at the National Institutes of Health. Major proposed rules changes at the Office of Management and Budget, would affect a huge range of government grants, from Headstart to Transportation to the National Science Foundation, as well as the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the subject of today's podcast. You dear listeners should all care. You should care because you care for older adults, or you're a researcher who studies palliative care, or you're a chaplain who visited with the family of a patient who died today. You should care because these rule changes are so sweeping that they would remove standard components of the scientific review process and instead put them in the hands of political appointees. You should care because if rules like this were in place in the 1980s, we might not have developed treatments to stop the HIV/AIDS epidemic. You should care because if these rules go into effect we will not be able to work with researchers in other countries studying outbreaks of Ebola or Hauntavirus. You should care because these rules silence federal research into groups of people we care for daily. And if you're not a researcher, your voice is even more important here. As Sean says, researchers who protest these proposed rule changes might come across as self-serving. Clinicians who are not researchers - who can say that these rules will negatively impact the science that improves care of older adults living with chronic conditions and their families - your voices may resonate even more. What can you do? Most of these rule changes are open for public comment here until July 13, 2026. Every comment will be read and requires a response. It's ok to respond anonymously. Personalized stories matter more than form responses. Tips: 1: Say (or just describe to keep anonymous) who you are and why you are qualified to comment. Telling the story of how patients and families you care for or study is enough. Get your partner and parents to respond too. Simply being a concerned citizen is perfectly fine. 2: List the exact provision #s that concern you, and explain what they would do. You do not need to quote the rule directly. Just explain what you understand it to mean in plain terms. Political Appointees Take Control of Grant Awards (§200.205); Peer Review Is No Longer Binding (§200.205(d)); Active Grants Can Be Terminated at Any Time, for Any Reason (§200.340); DEI, Gender Research, and Related Topics Banned as Grant Conditions (§200.300); Prohibition on International Scientific Collaboration (§200.220); Conference Attendance Now Requires Express Agency Pre-Approval (§200.432); Publication Costs and Open Access Fees Presumptively Unallowable (§200.461) 3: Explain the concrete harm. What would happen to your patients and their families if this provision takes effect? 4: Closing: State clearly what you want OMB to do. This can be as simple as: "I urge OMB to withdraw these specific provisions: §200.340, §200.202, §200.205." or "I urge OMB not to finalize this rule." Submit your comment in opposition here: The deadline is July 13, 2026. You can also email your congressperson or senator. Times they are a changin'.

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