What are the connections between propaganda about the Russian Empire and the invasion of Ukraine? Mikhail Zygar, a renowned Russian dissident journalist, is the founding editor-in-chief of Russian news TV channel Dozhd, who was forced to close his company and flee the country after condemning the invasion. In July 2023 he came to Intelligence Squared to share his insights into the power struggles and myths that shape Russo-Ukrainian relations today. Drawing on his new book War and Punishment: Putin, Zelensky, and the Path to Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine, Zygar explored how pervasive historical myths about Ukraine led Russian President Putin to underestimate the growing influence of Volodymyr Zelensky, the television comic who ultimately became Ukraine’s president. Joining Zygar in conversation is Edward Lucas, columnist at The Times and an expert on National Security. We’d love to hear your feedback and what you think we should talk about next, who we should have on and what our future debates should be. Send us an email or voice note with your thoughts to [email protected] or Tweet us @intelligence2. And if you’d like to support our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations, as well as ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content, early access and much more, become a supporter of Intelligence Squared. Just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.

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