Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0818 715 815. This is LiveLine on RTE Radio 1.
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Yes, Seamath appeared on a BBC show over the weekend and ultimately the comments under the BBC social media posts had to be suspended. Why? Because such was the level of negative attention directed at Seamath because of her body and the shape of her body and what she looked like. And this is not...
New ground for CMAD, unfortunately, and she took to Instagram herself overnight and this is what she had to say. It is literally boring for me, a gorgeous genius, to keep having to yap on about how horribly I'm treated because of my body. I'd love to stop, but I can't. Why? Because it keeps happening and at an accelerating and worsening pace as I become more famous.
So that's what CMAT had to say herself overnight about this. 51551 is the text number if you want to get in touch or give me a call on 0818 715 815. Casey Campion is on the line. Casey, why do you think, as CMAT says, it keeps happening?
I think, as she said herself, the more successful she gets, the worse it's going to get. And also, I find addressing it I know she'll probably feel that she has to address it, but sometimes that's what these people want, you know?
And the, I mean, the fact that it appeared on the BBC social media posts, I mean, how much is that a factor in all of this? The ease at which people can now comment on somebody's appearance and do so publicly?
Yeah, I think the online thing is obviously what makes it so much worse. Because in real life, you're not going to have people saying these awful things to you. Maybe you will, but not to the level of online. People are just so comfortable. And obviously they can make fake accounts. So they just think they can say whatever they want, whenever they want.
And ultimately, there's no repercussions really ever. So I don't see why it would stop.
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Chapter 2: What body shaming comments did CMAT receive after her BBC appearance?
And as much as I told everyone, oh, it doesn't bother me, it doesn't bother me, naturally, that seeps into your brain. And, like, someday they'd look in the mirror and be like, oh, I look great. Five minutes later, I'd look in another mirror and be like, oh, my God, everything they're all saying is true. Like, it's affected my body image so badly.
And did that affect your behaviour or how you treated your body?
Um... So, like, as of the last couple of weeks, I've started to, like, go to the gym a lot more and I've started with a PT. And, of course, that is for myself. But a lot of it is, like, unfortunately, like, I feel like I have to prove something to people, which is kind of crazy, but it's just the way the internet is.
So do you think you'd be going to the gym and going to a personal trainer if, like, if you were just, sorry, no offence to accountants or teachers, you know, if you were just an accountant or a teacher, you're somebody not in the public eye, is what I'm trying to say.
Yes. Probably not to the east. I wouldn't feel as in a rush. I'm like, oh my God, it's summer. I'm going to be in a bikini. I need to post things. This needs to be fast-tracked now kind of thing. Whereas if I had a job where you didn't see me, I don't think it would be as much of a rush.
God, that's awful pressure to be putting under yourself, isn't it?
Yeah. And like, As I said, like some days you think you look great, some days you don't. And I do believe it is because of these comments. Although they don't keep me up at night, I don't cry about them. I think they have seeped into my brain, like naturally, you know.
Yeah. Stay with us, Casey. I want to bring in Sherry as well, who is after getting in touch. 51551 if people want to text. as well and join the conversation. Sherry, again, the same question I asked Casey, in Seamath's own words, I'd love to stop but I can't because it keeps happening. Why do you think this keeps happening?
I think because she's so different and she's such a strong force and unique and I think that makes her even more of a target, that she's not
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Chapter 3: How does CMAT describe her experience with ongoing body shaming?
your typical pop country star. You know, she has her own style. She puts it out there. She's not, she doesn't let out pressure to conform. And I think that makes her even more of a target because she's so unique.
So it's not just that they focus on the body image, but it's just that she's, she's kind of unashamedly herself in every way.
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, anyone different is going to get... Anyone different is going to make people, unfortunately, uncomfortable. I do think then that adds to it.
And are you a big fan of Seamath yourself?
I think she's brilliant, yeah. I absolutely love her. I think she's a genius. Like her songs and her writing and even if you listen to interviews with her and she talks about the process of writing and The way her mind works, like, she's amazing.
And how then... We know how she reacts. She says she finds it boring, but she feels she has to keep doing it because it keeps happening. How do you react when you hear that, you know, her appearance in the BBC ends up with just toxicity in the comments?
I just think it's so sad. You know, like, I have a son who's nine and... It just hurts my heart that he's growing up in a world where this amazing woman is judged purely for her appearance and her style. Like, Lewis Capaldi doesn't get comments like that. And he's not a contemporary, you know, typical boy band, handsome pop star. People don't focus on that with men.
But it's like, if you don't fit the mould of a woman, no matter how genius you are, you're always going to be rejected and told... well, you're not good enough just because you don't look like it.
OK. Cher, like Casey, you stay with us as well. I want to bring in Elaine Crowley, who, of course, would be well known to so many people as well. Elaine, you have spoken about this. You've had to put up with commentary like this as well throughout your career, haven't you?
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Chapter 4: Why do some people believe body shaming worsens with fame?
Indeed, ever since I was 22 years old, and I'm 48 now, going on 49, so you can imagine I've been putting up with it for most of my professional career, unfortunately.
And tell me, when you were 22 and it started, I mean, how did it manifest? What were the comments? How were you hearing them?
Well, you have to remember, when I started in Virgin Media, previously TV3, it was just the turn of the millennium. And when you think about that, we were just emerging from the heroin chic era, which is very, very fashionable. People were painfully thin all the time.
So having someone who was a normal size, I mean, 12 to 14, which is what I was at that point, which is a lot thinner than I am now, might I add, I was a lot bigger than any other person
female TV presenter in Ireland at that time and it was quite commented upon even some of your previous callers were talking about social media comments and people don't say that to people's faces now but they did back then there was editorials about it back then I was
When I was a newsreader with Clare Fitzpatrick and Gwenna Shoiga, they said we looked like Stepford Wives of newsreading, but there was the beautiful one, the other one, and I was the robust Stepford Wives, robust even using that. And that was in a main Sunday newspaper, a reputable Sunday newspaper. And that's not the only thing. I was at an event once at the Iftas.
There was a two-page spread called The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. my picture of me with the ugly as well. So it's not just about weight, it's about what you wear, it's what you look like. And yes, it would be nice to, and I think just now what's happened, what used to be on mainstream is no longer on mainstream and it's filtered down into online now and that's where people feel safe.
It's not safe, it's not acceptable to body shame. I think people in editorially or in their so-called reputable media, but on social media, it's just a free-for-all. People can say what they want.
Yeah. Was it exhausting when you were 22 and this started happening?
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Chapter 5: How do online comments affect individuals' body image?
Yeah, well, it would be better. Not that you have to, but it would be better if you did lose weight. And I didn't need to lose weight back then. But the problem is when that's hammered home to you time and time again, and it's from everybody. I mean, thinness has always been absolutely almost deified in all societies, really, particularly where we are in Europe and the US for the last while.
So, I mean, being thin is equated to being beautiful thin. But, I mean, we know that's the opposite now. And what is really, really troubling for me now is the re-emergence of this heroin. People walking red carpets that are being told they're beautiful and stunning and amazing. And they have clinical signs of malnutrition on their bodies, their shoulders, their elbows.
Their bones are too big for the flesh they have on them. And that's what's terrifying me at the moment because we have...
so much trouble now at the moment with social media and young girls and young boys be it orthorexia or anorexia and this is the message they're getting it's coming back in and it's not even insidious anymore blatant Casey mentioned somebody telling her she should go on Monjaro the prevalence of skinny jobs has that made everything worse that people now there's an added thing of why aren't you doing it
No, I don't think so. I think it's nothing to do with skinny tails. I think this is a nice excuse for that. Because I think even within the industry, the fashion industry, thinness, all this feeds down from supermodels and fashion. Basically, high fashion is created to look good, basically, on the body of a 12-year-old boy.
You've got no boobs, you've got no hips, you're straight up and down and you're very, very thin. Now, for a while, there was a massive pushback against that because it was acceptance for whatever shape and size you are, as long as you're healthy, knock yourself out and do it. I have no problem with skinny jabs. There's a place for them. They're an amazing medical tool.
For people with the disease that is obesity, what I do have a problem with is people who are very, very healthy weight naturally. And I'm talking about people who are size 8, size 10, going on jabs like that to lose a stone when they don't need to. And that is where I think they're being abused. rather than used properly.
I think they're revolutionary when it comes to cardiovascular disease in women, when it comes to metabolic problems in women, endocrine disease in women, huge PCOS, you name it. It's got amazing medical promise and has already shown that. But the problem is now, I think if people are using it who shouldn't be using it, And because of that, we see this extreme thinness and it's not an aesthetic.
We have people both in Hollywood and here in Ireland who are malnourished. They're unwell and they're being perceived as this is the way you should look now on TV, which is ridiculous. Yes, I still get mocked left, right and centre for being a bigger woman on television for want of a better phrase.
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Chapter 6: What experiences do callers share about body shaming?
But, you know, the camera does add whatever you might say, that's 10 or 20 pounds. I have people still coming up to me, oh my God, You look so much better in real life or you look thinner in real life than you do on TV and blah, blah, blah. Do you know what? That's par for the course. I'm older now.
I suppose I went through the horrors through my 20s and even some of my early 30s with that mentally as well as physically starving myself. and you name it, and not leaving the house, not going to events because I felt I was too fat. I'm over that now at this stage, thankfully, because I'm older and hopefully wiser.
But what we're looking at now is terrifying because it's coming back, it's back with a bang, and nobody is pointing it out.
When you said those horrors, tell me more about that.
Sorry, what did you say?
The horrors.
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Chapter 7: How does societal pressure influence body image perceptions?
You said the horrors of my 20s and early 30s.
What do you mean by that? It's hard to... to explain, I suppose, if... I don't mean to offend you, but to a man, the scrutiny that you come under as a woman, especially in the public eye. And I used to get it thrown to me. I was a newsreader back then, going, oh, you should expect to be commented on if you're on television. But any of the men I worked with weren't commented on.
And then if you go out and you go out in your photographs and it's a nice night and you wear your dress and then immediately... your picture is put up for scrutiny. One dress that I remember years ago, I was actually in my 30 or 31. I loved it. I got it made myself. I designed it myself. I got it made in Dubai and I wore it a few times.
And in the space of a couple of months, I was three times in Saksa Stylist was the thing in one of the Sunday papers. So front and center, let's laugh at this woman this week. And it was me time and time again. And that was... And can you imagine what that does to... And just listen, I'm vulnerable as the next person. Just because I'm on TV doesn't mean I'm made of stone.
Seeing that in the press and having to get on and get up the next day and seeing it in the paper about yourself. I was reading the news at the weekend. I'd open up the Sunday paper and there it was. And then I'd go off and do my job knowing people were laughing at me. It's not easy. It's not easy at all.
And it's very dangerous because it leads to, it led to several instances of me isolating myself after that incident I told you about when I was at the IFTTT and there was the good, the bad and the ugly incident. I was due to go to an event the following week and I stayed at home crying.
It was actually the VIP Style Awards, which ironically I won one of them last week, which I never thought would happen for someone my size, to be quite honest. And I didn't go. I ducked out at the last minute. I stayed home crying because I couldn't face that sort of scrutiny and that sort of judgment and the malicious nastiness again. And that was before social media was prevalent.
Can you just imagine what people do now?
So when you hear Elaine Casey a few minutes ago talking about how she feels under pressure in the here and now to get noticeably slimmer by the summer because she's going to be taking more photos of herself and she knows that more comments will come with those photos. And she's going to a gym and going to a personal trainer. And, you know, there's benefits to all of that.
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Chapter 8: What is the impact of weight stigma on mental health?
And there is harm being caused. And I think you said that earlier, you know, Seema saying she's bored of this, which I'm sure she is, but it's obviously impacting her. How can you not be impacted when you're up on stage creating this unbelievable music that people love and adore, but at the same time, you're getting berated because of the way you look. Like, Nobody is bulletproof.
You're going to be impacted by that, especially if it's something that you've heard your whole life.
I wonder as well, to an extent... Sometimes can it be, well, I guess it's probably most often dismissed by men who don't have to put up with it. Let's be honest about it. And is it dismissed as well by a generation who don't realise to what extent, you know, people consume the world or the world around them and what's going on through social media?
You know, the attitude is kind of, well, just don't look at it. You know, just turn it off. When the reality is probably more like that smoking ad, you know, where your man is following the lad around and sitting beside him on the bus. It's like that. There's someone beside you saying you're fat, you're ugly.
Yeah, it's so trading.
exactly and you're seeing it in the media you're seeing hearing on the radio like it's not you can't just switch off from it right and also she shouldn't have to this isn't on her right and i get the intention block switch off of course and if that's helpful then we need to do that not engage but like she's living in this world where she is well known she is famous this stuff is going to sink in and it sinks into all of us no matter how much we try to avoid it and does does the um
Does the, what would I call it, the so-called or positive commentary in inverted commas, you know, the healthy way to lose weight and get fit in the summer and all that sort of stuff. Does that seep into you as well? If someone's in a bigger body and as you say, you know, you're in a bigger body and then it's all about get beach bod ready and all of this.
Does that kind of unconsciously kind of chip away at you too?
Of course it does, because your weight is being tied to your worth or your health. And like what I would say is everybody is a beach body, right? But I can also recognize that we live in a world where that's not necessarily true for everyone, because people do then have experiences, negative experience with people who do comment on their body or like... make them feel a certain way.
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