Nobody Should Believe Me
Case Files 10: The Psychology of Perpetrators with Dr. Cathy Ayoub
26 Dec 2024
In this last bonus episode before our season 5 premiere next week, we’re airing Andrea’s conversation with Dr. Catherine Ayoub, an associate professor at Harvard Medical School, APSAC member, nurse practitioner, and counseling and consulting psychologist. Cathy tells listeners about her background and first encounter with Munchausen by Proxy. She and Andrea chat about the different groupings of perpetrators and the characteristics/background that may signal that an abuser can be rehabilitated. Cathy dives into family dynamics, and her current study on the long-term effects of this abuse. *** Links and Resources: More about Dr. Cathy Ayoub: https://www.childrenshospital.org/directory/catherine-ayoub Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Full Episode
True Story Media. Hello, it's Andrea. Today is our final Case Files episode of the year because next Thursday, January 2nd, we are launching season five of Nobody Should Believe Me. So for listeners on the main feed, we will have it at its regular weekly cadence. And for the first time ever for subscribers, we will have the entire season, all eight episodes ready to binge.
I want to say a huge thank you to my incredible season five team, Mariah Gossett, Erin Ajayi, Nicole Hill, Greta Stromquist, Robin Edgar, and Nola Karmouche for making this all happen. You guys are the best. If you subscribe to the show, you will also get Nobody Should Believe Me After Hours, which is the subscriber exclusive show that I co-host with Dr. Becks twice a month.
We talk about a variety of Nobody Should Believe Me adjacent things in crime, pop culture, the news, etc. This month, we had a discussion about the Menendez brothers and their case, which has been back in the news recently. And as always, if monetary support is not an option, rating, reviewing, commenting on Spotify, sharing the show on social media,
are all things that really, really help us stay on the air as an independent show. So today I'm talking to Dr. Kathy Ayoub from Harvard. Kathy is a colleague of mine from the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children. And we had a really fascinating conversation about survivors, perpetrators, and just all of the complex psychological dynamics involved in these cases.
I really appreciated Kathy coming on to share all of her research and her insights. Thank you for being with me this year and for your support of the show. I hope that you are getting some rest this holiday time and spending lots of time with those you love and getting a break from it all here at the end of this absolutely bonkers year.
Whatever is coming in 2025, I will be here with you every week and we'll get through it together. Now on with the show. Just a quick reminder that my new book, The Mother Next Door, Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy, is on sale right now wherever books are sold. The book was an Amazon editor's pick for nonfiction, and the Seattle Times called it a riveting deep dive into MVP.
And if you are an audiobook lover and you like hearing my voice, which I'm assuming you do since you're listening here... You should know that I narrate the audio book as well. If you have already read the book, which I know so many of you have, thank you so much.
Please let me know your thoughts and questions at helloandnobodieshouldbelieveme.com and we will bring my co-author, Detective Mike Weber, on for a little book Q&A and post-retirement tell-all special. Thanks for your support. Well, hi, Kathy. Hello. Thank you so much for being with us. So yeah, if you could just start off by telling us who you are and what you do.
My name is Catherine Ayou, usually called Kathy, and I'm an associate professor at Harvard Medical School, and I'm a counseling and consulting psychologist and a nurse practitioner. So I come at all the work that I do from my basic interest and work in working with children and their families.
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