S05 Ep08: They Saw You
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Who is Sophie Hartman and what is her story?
In April of 2009, Sophie Hartman left her small Christian college in Michigan to become a missionary in Zambia. While there, she encountered two sisters in an orphanage, C and M. And in May of 2015, after going numerous rounds in court with the Zambian government, she won the right to take the two sisters into her home. In March of 2021, after her younger daughter had endured countless doctor's visits, testing, and two surgeries, a court in Washington State, where Sophie had resettled them, took them away. And in May of 2021, almost six years to the day after the adoptions were finalized, Sophie was charged with assault of a child in the second degree. But after a costly and bitterly fought year-long battle, Sophie got her daughters back. That following summer, the criminal charges were dropped. This season, we followed the long and windy road of this case and how it collided with my own family.
And after reading hundreds of pages of documentation, listening to many hours of police interviews, and our tireless researcher scouring the internet for the truth, there's so much of this case that remains unknown. One of the biggest mysteries is how a judge could look at all of this and still decide to return Sophie's children to her care.
What were the legal outcomes of Sophie's case?
I spoke to Olivia LaVois, the reporter who broke this story, to try and unravel the way this case played out. I think the justice system, for those people who haven't interacted with it, is so much more complex than I think people realize.
No, absolutely. And it just goes to, like, the case being dismissed does not give you the answer as to if she did it or not. You know, it just doesn't. I think we all wish that it could because we want to know. Like, it's just human nature. You want to know. Right. Is the child sick or not?
People believe their eyes. That's something that is so central to this topic because we do believe the people that we love when they're telling us something. If we didn't, you could never make it through your day. I'm Andrea Dunlop, and this is Nobody Should Believe Me. Hello, it's Andrea. The episode you're about to hear was originally the finale of our season. However, in the weeks since the release of the premiere, one of the sources that I'd been speaking to for months decided that she wanted to go on the record. So we will be airing my in-depth conversation with her next week. And trust me, you will not want to miss it. Well, friends, it's 2025. It's here. This year is going to be... Well, one thing it won't be is boring, and that's about the only prediction I'm going to make right now. But one piece of news that I am excited to share is that the wait for my new book, The Mother Next Door, is almost over. It is coming at you on February 4th from St. Martin's Press. So soon!
I co-authored this book with friend and beloved contributor of this show, Detective Mike Weber, about three of the most impactful cases of his career. Even if you are one of the OG-est of OG listeners to this show, I promise you are going to learn so many new and shocking details about the three cases we cover. We just go into so much more depth on these stories, and you're also going to learn a ton about Mike's story. Now, I know y'all love Detective Mike because he gets his very own fan mail here at Nobody Should Believe Me. And if you've ever wondered, how did Mike become the detective when it came to Munchausen by proxy cases, you are going to learn all about his origin story in this book.
And I know we've got many audiobook listeners out there, so I'm very excited to share with you the audiobook is read by me, Andrea Dunlop, your humble narrator of this very show. I really loved getting to read this book, and I'm so excited to share this with you. If you are able to pre-order the book, doing so will really help us out.
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Chapters
7 chapters
1
Who is Sophie Hartman and what is her story?
0:24–1:44
2
What were the legal outcomes of Sophie's case?
1:44–4:28
3
How does Sophie's case connect to Andrea's family?
4:28–10:40
4
What is the significance of Sophie's lawsuit?
10:40–12:58
5
How does the media portray medical child abuse cases?
12:58–15:08
6
What are the implications of settling out of court in these cases?
15:08–21:41
7
How does the parents' rights movement relate to these cases?
21:41–45:21