Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
True Story Media. Over the past several weeks, we've been talking about Serial's new podcast, The Preventionist, and the significant issues with their reporting on child abuse pediatricians. And the harm this reporting does is very real, first to the children involved, but certainly also to the doctors who are tasked with protecting them.
Dr. Stephen Boos, a child abuse pediatrician we spoke to at length for our upcoming season, said in an interview with journalist Naomi Riley last month that his colleagues are the subject of so many threats that many have had to install security systems. He also notes a concern about attracting young doctors to the profession.
And Dr. Sally Smith spoke to us the other week about the death threats and harassment she's received as a result of misleading media coverage that she's been the subject of. which I dare say may very well be the point of all this. And it can be pretty challenging to unring the bell here.
For example, there was endless media coverage of the Kowalskis lawsuit against Johns Hopkins All Children's, mostly extremely favorable to them. However, the appeal in the hospital's favor, not so much.
Chapter 2: What are the significant issues with Serial's reporting on child abuse pediatricians?
And while we can't speak to Dr. Jensen at the moment because of the pending litigation, as we've been discussing, the people who should actually be evaluating whether child abuse pediatricians are doing their work properly are people with expertise in the field.
And thankfully, there's almost no one in the country with more expertise than today's guest, Dr. Randy Alexander, a professor of pediatrics and notably the one child abuse pediatrician whose voice was featured in The Preventionist.
Not only does Randy have a wealth of experience in the field, he also knows both of journalist Diane Neary's targets, Dr. Deborah Jensen and Dr. Sally Smith, quite well.
That's right, that was actually their boss. And so Sally was, I was for 10 years, 10 and a half years, I was the statewide medical director for all the child protection teams in Florida. And Sally was one of my medical directors. So she reported to me and I got to see her work. I've looked at many, many of her reports through the years on other cases.
And the same thing with Deb Jensen, she was my medical director and she was stationed in Gainesville. And what I did with her, because she was somewhat newer, Sally had been around for a lot of decades.
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Chapter 3: How does media portrayal affect child abuse pediatricians and their work?
Anyway, I looked at everything she did for about six months. Everything she wrote, I saw. And then thereafter with both of them, they would call me up about cases and all that. So I reviewed their work. And in essence, I'd say I know them quite well in terms of what they were doing. I always challenged the community as I did with other people.
I said, if you think they did anything wrong, just send it to me and I'll look it over. And I also would somewhat tease them. Some wasn't completely tease. I would say, if you ever do anything wrong, I'm going to call you out on it.
Chapter 4: What insights does Dr. Randy Alexander offer about the role of child abuse pediatricians?
And they said, sure, go for it. Cause in medicine, we're used to that. And when we first start out as a medical student, we expect that our work is going to be critiqued and all the way through our training. You know, there's always somebody that's going to look it over and always give us some critique one way or the other. And so it's not anything new.
It's just kind of part of your normal life that you think that way. And you don't take any offense about it or anything. And they were both wonderful that way. And then, of course, in Sally's case, I did testify in that trial.
You testified in the Kowalski trial.
Chapter 5: How does the Amanda Saranofsky case illustrate misunderstandings in child abuse cases?
Yeah, they didn't go along with it. But I said she operationally did all the right stuff that I expect of a And yet, apparently, that wasn't entirely the way that everybody else in the trial saw it.
Right.
Well, I was right. Nevertheless.
Yes. Well, actually, you know, the appeals court of Florida entirely seems to agree with you as this recent decision that came down a few weeks ago. And we were able to we had this other another interview with Sally scheduled just to talk about the preventionist and low. We ended up being able to talk about the appeal as well.
Chapter 6: What are the consequences of misrepresenting child abuse pediatricians in the media?
And, you know, what that court decided, it was quite a strong decision. in favor of the hospital and basically said that the stuff regarding the doctor's actions and protective actions should never have even gone to trial.
Well, and the thing I said at trial and, you know, something I believe for anything is she did the things she's supposed to do. She followed procedures. She followed the law. She did exactly the right stuff. I mean, you would want someone to follow up on your child and see, you know, when somebody gives, says there's this possible case coming up, you want someone to look in that and help you.
That's what she did. There is not, not only is it nothing wrong with it, but her job as medical director was to do that very thing.
Having known these these two doctors, is it a surprise to you the way they're currently being represented in the media?
Chapter 7: How do child abuse pediatricians navigate accusations and public perception?
Because if you were to look at the media coverage of these two doctors, you would think that they had had, you know, these very fraught. careers where there'd been all these complaints about them and that they are committing, you know, malpractice of some kind and that they are extremely arrogant and don't listen to anyone else. And I mean, that's the way they've both been portrayed.
Does that match up with the reality of what you know of these two doctors?
Never my experience. And actually, I never did have a complaint about them, which I would have been happy to look into. I would have been happy to to argue it with them if I thought there was something to it. But that situation never came up. I think if I had a child and I was looking at primary care, these would be two great pediatricians to have, you know, take care of your particular child.
Chapter 8: What are the challenges faced by child abuse pediatricians in their profession?
There's a little bit that I don't want to sort of suggest something that, you know, goes beyond its bounds. But I wonder if they're because they're women, if they're a little more prone to being picked on. You know, I think it's kind of approval. The field has more women than men. So, you know, just statistically, you know, if you're going to pick on anybody, you'd probably pick on a woman.
But nevertheless, you know, would they pick on a guy quite the same way? And I'm not so sure. So I wonder if there's a little bit of bias that way. And, you know, it's kind of unprovable, you know, that sort of thing. But, you know, it it concerns me a little bit, you know, that that that might be an element.
I have absolutely clocked some misogyny in the media coverage, and certainly in the comments, about both doctors. Their supposed arrogance, their unwillingness to be challenged, even their hand gestures and facial expressions are presented as evidence that they're too powerful.
And it's not a huge leap to say that people frequently bristle at certain qualities in women that we might admire in men.
Both of them are the types that upset the apple cart a little bit. they will be persistent in pursuing a case. I mean, if you had a child that had some infection and they were persistent in trying to get the right antibiotic, get them taken care of, you'd say that's a wonderful thing. And on child abuse things, they're persistent, but they stay within their lane.
I mean, they're not out there prosecuting cases because they're not prosecutors, but they're doing the medical stuff they're supposed to do. But for some people, it's like it's inconvenient that you're calling out and saying, well, you know, we have to do, you know, do something about the case.
We just recently, my institution, we had a thing where Department of Children and Families kind of wasn't paying a lot of attention. Kid had bruises all over. And you take one look at it and you gasp is like what? And so we had to kind of prod them to bring the child in and then do our evaluation and all that sort of stuff.
And when you have people that do that, sometimes you make a little bit of waves and was both Sally and Deb. I think, you know, at times they did that, but it's always, if I had done it, it would have, I think it might've been better. Um, you know, just as a male, uh, and older that, you know, all that stuff is a cultural stereotype.
and i think that was one thing it's a little harder having said that they've done this stuff for decades and you know these couple things that come up is not the same as all the hundreds and hundreds of cases they've done that they've not had these issues with and so you know we can speculate about all the various cultural factors that you know occasionally work against them but
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