In this podcast we discuss low-value care that has emerged from a decay in the specificity of the terms “cardiac arrest” and “cardiopulmonary resuscitation.” Patients who experience cardiac arrest in hospital are rarely more than a minute or two away from defibrillation. But the proportion of shockable rhythms in these patients is low as the heart has typically stopped after the decline of other systems. In such conditions, chest compressions are more likely to cause unnecessary trauma than improve survival outcomes. As retired UK palliative care physician Kathryn Mannix explains, “cardiac arrest” was originally reserved for unexpected events in relatively healthy individuals in the community. She says we need to separate this from the more progressive phenomenon that is better described as “natural dying”. There is also a semantic breakdown in the understanding of what “cardiopulmonary resuscitation” entails. Surveys of Australasian medical practitioners show that the majority consider CPR to include defibrillation and drugs not just chest compressions and ventilation. As a result, Do Not Attempt CPR orders get perceived as being “a stop sign” to other treatments that may be beneficial. We hear from the NZ-based authors of that research, cardiologist Dr Tammy Pegg, intensivist Dr Alex Psirides and palliative care physician Dr Kate Grundy. Chapters4:00 CPR for out-of-hospital cardiac arrest8:43 Overuse of CPR in hospitalised patients 20:08 Crude algorithms and failed conversations 40:17 Semantic confusion around what CPR entails 48:13 The midwifing of natural dyingGuestsDr Kathryn Mannix (www.kathrynmannix.com) Dr Tammy Pegg MRCP FRACP FC CANZ DPhil (Nelson Marlborough Hospital cardiology department) Dr Alex Psirides FCICM (Wellington Regional Hospital intensive care unit) Dr Kate Grundy FAChPM FRACP (Christchurch Hospital palliative care service; University of Otago)ProductionProduced by Mic Cavazzini DPhil. Music licenced from Epidemic Sound includes ‘Awash’ by Gavin Luke, ‘Fields 3’ by Gunnar Johnsén, ‘RGBA’ by Chill Cole and ‘Til All that’s Left is Ash’ by Ludlow.Music courtesy of FreeMusicArchive includes ‘New Times’ by 4T Thieves and ‘Secret Place’ by Alex Fitch. Image by Yuichiro Chino licenced through Getty Images. Football commentary courtesy of UEFA Euro 2021. Editorial feedback kindly provided by RACP physicians Stephen Bacchi, Fionnuala Fagan, Simeon Wong, Hugh Murray and Aidan Tan. Thanks also to RACP staff Arnika Martus and Kathryn Smith. Please visit the Pomegranate Health web page for a transcript and supporting references. Login to MyCPD to record listening and reading as a prefilled learning activity. Subscribe to new episode email alerts or search for ‘Pomegranate Health’ in

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