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Radiolab

Gray's Donation

20 Feb 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What profound decision did Sarah and Ross Gray make regarding their son Thomas?

1.128 - 22.973 Latif Nasser

Hey, this is Radiolab, I'm Latif Nasser, and today we have a story for you that gets at the satisfaction of knowing. There are lots of moments in life when you are a piece of someone's story, just a little part of it for a moment, and you never get to see how that story shakes out or what impact you actually had. This story starts out like that.

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23.755 - 49.487 Latif Nasser

A family puts something out into the void, something very meaningful to them, without any expectation that they will ever hear back about it. But then they decide, actually, wait a second, we do want to know what came out of that. And so they go on a quest to find out. It's an episode we originally released in 2015, and we've got a little update for you at the end.

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49.868 - 64.682 Latif Nasser

I should say at the top, this episode discusses medical issues with a pregnancy, if that is a sensitive topic for you. Either way, I think it's one of the most profound episodes we've ever put out at this show. Here it is.

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Chapter 2: How did Sarah and Ross Gray find out about Thomas's medical condition?

64.662 - 83.38 Elizabeth Mason

Gray's donation.

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85.317 - 96.677 Jad Abumrad

Uh, hi, this is Jad. Hi. Hey, it's me, Jad. And I'm Robert. And today's story started when we bumped into an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer. Were you a little bit weirded out as to why we are calling you?

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97.214 - 98.677 Elizabeth Mason

Yes.

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98.697 - 105.408 Jad Abumrad

I don't, you know, I mean, I just don't understand the whole thing. The story really gets going with a phone call to this woman, Elizabeth Mason.

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Chapter 3: What ethical dilemmas did Sarah and Ross face during the pregnancy?

105.629 - 118.471 Jad Abumrad

I'm a receptionist slash switchboard operator. She works at a research lab in Boston, and one day she's sitting at her desk, and she gets a call from a woman who says that she has donated some eyes to them, and she wants to know what happened to them.

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120.721 - 147.808 Elizabeth Mason

call you get every day I just remember it was just very unusual right and just I didn't know what to do with it I just felt like I gotta find somebody to help this woman today we're gonna tell you the story of the of the woman on the other end of that phone call this is her story you might take their story so for my title should I say I'm Sarah gray I'm the mom I'm Ross gray Thomas's dad and how did you guys meet well we're we met in a bar in Glasgow really yeah I was on vacation with a girlfriend

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147.856 - 153.885 Jad Abumrad

And was it what happened without getting into too many?

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153.905 - 159.273 Ross Gray

I don't know. I think we've got different ideas and different recollection of what happened.

160.254 - 166.083 Sarah Gray

Well, he started dating across the ocean for a year and a half, and then he moved to America.

166.643 - 173.914 Jad Abumrad

Five days after he arrived, they were married. A few years after that, they were pregnant with twins. And when did you first know that something was up?

174.248 - 185.929 Sarah Gray

It was at the 12-week screening. They call it the first trimester screening, and they're checking for birth defects. I think the most common one is Down syndrome. But it was September 30, 2009.

186.044 - 192.652 Jad Abumrad

They went in for the screening. The ultrasound tech took a scan of the two fetuses. And shortly after, the doc came into the room.

Chapter 4: How did Thomas's short life lead to discussions about organ donation?

202.785 - 213.418 Sarah Gray

And he said he could see that because one of the twins had a round skull and the other one had a bumpy skull. The bumpy skull showed him that the skull wasn't correct, wasn't round enough.

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213.685 - 216.949 Jad Abumrad

The brain and skull weren't forming properly, which is what anencephaly is.

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217.149 - 229.002 Ross Gray

Bit of a shock, obviously. I couldn't believe that. It's difficult to process it, I think, because you think, no, that can't be right. They've just told us it's identical twins, but one of them's completely different from the other.

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229.082 - 230.503 Sarah Gray

It sounded fictional to me.

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231.224 - 232.045 Jad Abumrad

Making matters worse.

232.185 - 243.237 Sarah Gray

The doctors said that the unhealthy twin was posing a threat to the healthy twin, and if we were to be safe, we would do a selective termination to save the life of the healthy twin.

243.301 - 246.27 Jad Abumrad

So Sarah says they were suddenly faced with this choice.

246.49 - 249.018 Sarah Gray

I actually talked to two priests on the phone about it.

249.479 - 252.568 Jad Abumrad

Really? Yeah. Her family's Catholic. She was raised Catholic.

Chapter 5: What was the family's experience after Thomas's passing?

404.073 - 405.435 Ross Gray

That's very weird.

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405.455 - 408.96 Jad Abumrad

All right. So they get to the day of March.

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409.36 - 409.621 Sarah Gray

23rd.

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409.641 - 410.963 Jad Abumrad

23rd. Okay. 2010.

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410.983 - 412.645 Ross Gray

10.30 a.m.

412.692 - 423.967 Sarah Gray

Thomas came out first, and he's the sick one that had anencephaly. And then a minute later, Callum came out. And I wasn't sure if Thomas was going to be born alive. I sort of expected him to die within a few minutes.

424.448 - 432.078 Ross Gray

He was struggling at first when he came out. They didn't think he was going to last too long, but then he kind of rallied, and he was doing pretty good.

432.939 - 442.412 Jad Abumrad

Oddly, it was then Callum, the healthy twin, who started to have some trouble at the beginning. And so he and Sarah went off to the infant ICU. And so Ross says, in the delivery room.

442.477 - 446.541 Ross Gray

It was just me and Thomas for quite a while, actually. We were just sitting together.

Chapter 6: How did Sarah Gray's quest for answers unfold over the years?

507.8 - 516.858 Sarah Gray

And at the time, I remember thinking, you know, like, come on, little guy, like, just eat some more. Like, if you eat some more, then you'll be stronger. I was like, just eat, just eat.

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518.442 - 524.654 Jad Abumrad

Well, so how long did Thomas live in the end? Six days. Six days.

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525.015 - 545.181 Sarah Gray

He died in Ross's arms and he was surrounded by all of the people that loved him. And then right then we called the Washington Regional Transplant Community. They sent a van over to our house and they picked up his body and took him to DC Children's National Medical Center.

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548.013 - 555.525 Jad Abumrad

Okay, so this is where the story really gets going, I guess. So how did that idea of donating his organs come into your head?

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555.605 - 559.331 Ross Gray

Did you see an article in the paper, a newspaper article or something?

559.351 - 567.844 Sarah Gray

Yeah, my mom saw an article about a baby who had anencephaly who donated liver cells. And most major religions support organ donation.

568.044 - 572.451 Jad Abumrad

Oh, okay. So the van came, picked up Thomas. What happened next?

572.431 - 578.781 Ross Gray

Nothing happened. Nothing happened. For a long time, you know, I think we got a letter in the mail, I guess.

579.162 - 595.166 Jad Abumrad

Sort of a form letter. It basically said, thank you for your generous donation. Thomas's corneas have been sent to this place in Boston where they study a potential cure for blindness. And his livers have been sent to this place in Durham, North Carolina, where they study ways to treat liver disease.

Chapter 7: What discoveries did Sarah make about the recipients of Thomas's donations?

725.163 - 726.825 Jad Abumrad

That must have been a weird phone call.

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727.186 - 728.407 Sarah Gray

Yes. I mean, yes.

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728.808 - 730.35 Elizabeth Mason

Yeah, that was like a waker effort.

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730.82 - 732.041 Jad Abumrad

That's Elizabeth Mason again.

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732.302 - 733.703 Elizabeth Mason

It was just very unusual.

733.783 - 734.844 Sarah Gray

I think she was surprised.

735.005 - 741.212 Elizabeth Mason

I didn't know what to do with it. Had you ever gotten a call like that before? Never have gotten a call. And she's been working there for 25 years.

741.412 - 744.695 Sarah Gray

She said, hold on, let me connect you to the right person. Don't hang up.

744.755 - 751.863 Elizabeth Mason

A lot of times when I say something, they hang up on me. So I said, please hold the line while I started searching for someone to speak with her.

Chapter 8: How did Sarah's perspective on loss and science evolve through her journey?

1053.594 - 1060.122 Jad Abumrad

So after visit two, they got in the car, drove down the street to this place called Cydonet, which is where Thomas's liver ended up.

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1060.135 - 1069.842 Sarah Gray

Basically, CytoNet will take a solid liver and they liquefy it, and then they inject the liquid liver into a baby that's waiting on a liver transplant as a bridge therapy.

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1070.041 - 1070.782 Jad Abumrad

Liquid liver.

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1070.822 - 1071.563 Ross Gray

Liver in a tube.

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1072.485 - 1074.127 Jad Abumrad

Yeah. They went in, again, got a tour.

1074.167 - 1075.91 Sarah Gray

Refrigerators, Petri dishes.

1076.11 - 1080.317 Jad Abumrad

The whole thing. The researchers then tell her that they had a little issue with Thomas's liver.

1080.457 - 1085.465 Sarah Gray

His liver was bruised when they got it, so they couldn't inject it into a baby.

1085.525 - 1089.511 Jad Abumrad

But then they told her that they were able to use it in an experiment.

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