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Something You Should Know

When Maps Go Wrong & The Science of Everyday Courage

06 Nov 2025

Transcription

Chapter 1: What is the secret to sounding intelligent without using big words?

2.748 - 19.896 Mike Carruthers

Today on Something You Should Know, ever use a big fancy word to try to impress someone? I'll explain why that's probably a bad idea. Then, the fascinating world of maps. Many are inaccurate, and some forget entire countries.

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19.876 - 34.422 Jay Foreman

Well, that's interesting because New Zealand goes missing from maps a lot, but then again, so do plenty of other places. So nations that go missing as well as New Zealand include Iceland, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, the Caribbean, and a lot of maps forget Antarctica completely.

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35.183 - 43.318 Mike Carruthers

Also, why zippers almost never fail and why ordinary people sometimes do courageous things.

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43.298 - 56.288 Ranjay Gulati

Nelson Mandela talked about this. He said that you know, I thought courage is the absence of fear. I've discovered courage is conquering fear. It's taking action in the face of fear. It's looking fear in the eye and still choosing to do something.

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Chapter 2: How have maps evolved and what mistakes do they often contain?

57.03 - 59.957 Mike Carruthers

All this today on Something You Should Know.

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62.283 - 83.91 Unknown

Ah, the Regency era. You might know it as the time when Bridgerton takes place, or as the time when Jane Austen wrote her books. The Regency era was also an explosive time of social change, sex scandals, and maybe the worst king in British history. Vulgar History's new season is all about the Regency era, the balls, the gowns, and all the scandal.

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84.371 - 103.648 Unknown

Listen to Vulgar History, Regency era, wherever you get podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers.

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105.05 - 126.751 Mike Carruthers

It would seem that sometimes using big words can help you sound more intelligent. But does it? Well, that's what we're going to start with today on this episode of Something You Should Know. Hi, I'm Mike Carruthers and welcome. So just about everybody has tried to sound more intelligent by using a big word or two here and there.

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127.111 - 139.33 Mike Carruthers

College kids do this all the time when writing papers because they think it makes them sound more intelligent and maybe they'll get a better grade. but actually it turns out it makes them sound less intelligent.

140.031 - 159.638 Mike Carruthers

Different studies have looked at this and they all conclude pretty much that people value fluency, that is the ability to read something easily and understand it, more than they value a fancy vocabulary. Better fluency leads people to judge the author as smarter, more confident, and more credible.

159.787 - 183.6 Mike Carruthers

Now it is true that having a big vocabulary is linked to higher intelligence, but the takeaway here seems to be that trying to sound more intelligent generally backfires. And that is something you should know. One of the most useful inventions in human history, maybe the most useful, is the map.

Chapter 3: Why do some countries frequently go missing from maps?

183.715 - 203.462 Mike Carruthers

I mean, it's hard to imagine getting anywhere without one. But here's the interesting twist. The first maps weren't made to help you get from here to there. They had a completely different and far less practical purpose. And even today, many maps we rely on aren't nearly as accurate as you might think.

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203.763 - 227.275 Mike Carruthers

The story of how maps evolved into these digital guides that we now carry in our pockets on our phones is full of surprises. Here to tell the story is Jay Foreman. He's co-host of the YouTube series Map Men and author of the book This Way Up, When Maps Go Wrong and Why It Matters. Hi, Jay. Welcome to Something You Should Know. Thank you so much for having me.

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227.936 - 250.995 Mike Carruthers

So one thing I've always wondered about maps is you can look at a map, From 150 years ago, pre-flight, before there were airplanes, how could they draw a map that was, it may not be perfectly accurate, but more or less had the right shape to it. How could they do that? if they couldn't see from high up?

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251.796 - 269.443 Jay Foreman

Well, it's really spectacular. It depends how far back in history you go, because if you go back a thousand years to the first Ptolemaic maps, they were the first maps that were attempting to be accurate, but without any of the kind of technology or data that we have now. And it was mostly just guesswork, just sort of walking around and doing the best straight lines possible.

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269.423 - 287.022 Jay Foreman

But it's when they started to use trigonometry, when they started to use instruments that can very, very accurately measure angles towards points a long distance away, that you can start to build up an accurate map. It's important to remember that for the majority of civilization, accuracy was not the main priority in maps.

287.703 - 299.642 Jay Foreman

Maps that circulated for many hundreds of years were primarily works of art to go in the monarch's office just so they could see what they were king of, and they were decorative. And it's only really quite recently that maps have become a scientific tool.

Chapter 4: How does courage differ from recklessness according to Ranjay Gulati?

300.123 - 306.822 Jay Foreman

But what it goes to show is just what an amazing job these people did hundreds of years ago, how much harder it was and how we take it for granted.

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306.937 - 312.985 Mike Carruthers

So here's something I'm sure you would know. How old is the oldest map that's ever been found?

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313.766 - 329.907 Jay Foreman

The very first map that we know of was a map of Babylon, which is from about 9000 BC. And it took quite a long time for archaeologists to work out that it actually was a map they were looking at, because I think map is quite a generous term for it. It was a sort of clay map.

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329.887 - 351.861 Mike Carruthers

uh rectangle with some triangles scratched into it but they worked out after a good long stare that it was supposed to be a map of the world and that is the earliest one that we know about well that's got to be interesting to see i mean when you think about the level of knowledge people had back then when they draw a map of the world it is theoretically what what they think the world looks like

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352.482 - 358.711 Jay Foreman

Yeah, so there's rather a lot missing from that map. I would imagine. That's why it took them such a long time to work out that it was supposed to be a world map.

359.292 - 378.321 Mike Carruthers

As you said a moment ago, maps were not originally meant to be accurate, and they don't really have to be accurate in this sense. I've written, drawn out maps for people back in the old days before GPS, and they were far from accurate, but they did the job.

378.706 - 397.491 Jay Foreman

Well, exactly. I mean, the only map, if you think about it, the only map that could possibly be truly accurate is a map that's of a scale of 1 to 1 and includes every single possible detail, and that's a very limited use. A map, by definition, has to distort the world in some way. If a map's job is to make something easy to understand and easy to read,

397.471 - 417.751 Jay Foreman

then it has to make important decisions about what detail to leave out. And probably the best examples of these are metro maps, maps of train and bus systems around the world. So one of the most famous is the London Underground. It was designed in 1932 by an engineer called Harry Beck, and what he famously did was he decided to completely do away with the concept of scale.

418.472 - 435.714 Jay Foreman

And his map showed simply where the stations were, in what order, where the changes were between lines, and what you ended up with was something that looked more like a circuit diagram. As far as accuracy goes, it's absolutely dreadful, but as far as it being useful for knowing where to get your train, it was revolutionary.

Chapter 5: What strategies can people use to develop everyday courage?

799.44 - 810.662 Jay Foreman

There was rather a lot of guesswork going on. So they drew the line first and the map became the border between the two before the actual world itself appeared. had the border imposed onto it.

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811.123 - 831.651 Jay Foreman

And as a result, they found all sorts of things that if they'd had an accurate map in the first place, or if they'd gone out to look in the first place, they never would have chosen a dead straight line on the 49th parallel. So there are two big examples. One of them is Point Roberts, which is supposed to be in British Columbia in Canada, but it's actually in the US. It's a peninsula.

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831.631 - 851.393 Jay Foreman

that behaves like an island because you can only get there from the US by boat or by driving through Canada and having your passport checked twice. So all the American citizens that live in Point Roberts, if they want to go to their nearest high school, they have to drive through Canada and back again, effectively using their passport four times a day. And there's another one as well.

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851.413 - 867.727 Jay Foreman

There's the Angle Inlet, which is the same thing, but closer to the east coast. And that was an example where the treaty said the border should be at the northwest corner of the Lake of the Woods. The trouble was, nobody at the time knew exactly where or what shape the Lake of the Woods was.

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867.807 - 888.715 Jay Foreman

And so when they went to actually survey the land with this treaty in their hand, they had no option but to draw this line in an absurd straight line down, cutting off part of the US when it should actually, by all reasonable logic, it should be in Canada. But to this day, it's a part of the U.S. that you can only access either by boat or by traveling through two countries.

889.777 - 899.556 Mike Carruthers

We're discussing things you never knew about maps. And my guest is Jay Foreman, author of This Way Up, When Maps Go Wrong and Why It Matters.

900.785 - 915.518 Chantel

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915.859 - 930.792 Roxanne

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930.772 - 973.907 Unknown

In their wake. Defeated and disillusioned, they hung up their guns and went their separate ways, all hoping to find some small bit of peace amidst a universe thick with violence and oppression. Four decades after their heyday, they each try to stay alive and eke out a living. But a friend from the past won't let them move on, and neither will their bitterest enemy.

Chapter 6: How does fear influence our decision-making in uncertain situations?

1039.678 - 1062.386 Jay Foreman

That skill is something that is very good for the hippocampus. There was a study done, and they worked out that of... 400 different occupations. The occupation that had by far the biggest hippocampus was taxi drivers because of the regular exercise they were doing in memorizing the streets and knowing their way around London without having to depend on GPS.

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1062.826 - 1080.372 Jay Foreman

So it's something that we're missing out on. There's another study we found out about. UCL did another study in 2014 where they got a bunch of students to walk around Soho, this neighborhood in central London. Half of them were using their satnavs, they were using GPS on their phone, and half of them were using paper maps.

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1080.52 - 1096.808 Jay Foreman

And they were all walking around wearing this special equipment on their head that monitored how much their hippocampus was being used. And it turns out that those that were using maps the old-fashioned way, their hippocampuses were being used rather a lot, and it was firing away during this experiment.

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1097.309 - 1104.621 Jay Foreman

And those that were just staring down at the blinking blue dots on their phone, it was barely being used at all. So it's a rather worrying trend, but not...

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1104.601 - 1125.242 Jay Foreman

a huge amount we can necessarily do about it because they've become so indispensable using GPS to the point that there's now plenty of people who know their way around their city perfectly well and yet even they use GPS because it now has information that you couldn't hope to know yourself such as where the traffic jams are or which roads might be closed.

1125.442 - 1149.66 Mike Carruthers

You know, I think everybody has mixed emotions about ways and other other navigation systems that send you on different routes than you would normally take. And you're so tempted to say, yeah, I know a better way. And yet so often when you do that, you get stuck in traffic and you wonder like you wonder whether their way is the right way or the best way or not.

1150.501 - 1168.09 Jay Foreman

when they send you on these routes, especially if you use Waze, which is the GPS that specializes in squiggly little shortcuts to avoid even the slightest traffic jam. And I sometimes wonder, they might be experimenting on you, and they're sending each driver a slightly different way so that they can get data about which way was quicker.

1168.751 - 1176.964 Jay Foreman

And if that were true, that would explain why several times it said, turn this way, take the little squiggly road to the left, and I've ignored it and got there much faster than it said I would.

1177.788 - 1205.888 Jay Foreman

except when you don't except when you say you know when you don't there are there are plenty of stories of people who are relying too much on their gps and they end up in some absurd situations and some dangerous situations my favorite story is um there was a couple on holiday in italy they wanted to get to the luxurious island of capri but they drove for hundreds of miles and ended up in the city of capi which is very similar spelling but completely the wrong side of the country

Chapter 7: What role does confidence play in courageous actions?

1355.702 - 1371.263 Mike Carruthers

You would think that there isn't a lot of controversy when it comes to maps, but maybe there is because, you know, and maybe there are countries that aren't particularly happy with the way their country is portrayed on the map or on the globe. Is there any of that?

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1371.53 - 1376.817 Jay Foreman

We're always keeping an eye on what's in the news with maps at the moment. Any geography related news story is interesting to us.

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1376.877 - 1394.702 Jay Foreman

And there was one that came up just less than a month ago where the African Union, which is a union of African countries, has put out a statement that they wish for most world maps to be changed because most world maps are using an old fashioned projection method, the Mercator projection.

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1394.682 - 1411.801 Jay Foreman

which famously is accurate for shape but not very accurate for scale, takes the... So the problem is taking a round earth and making a flat map of it is impossible to do without some kind of distortion. You have to either stretch bits or squash bits or slice bits.

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1412.382 - 1434.713 Jay Foreman

And the most popular method for doing it is the so-called Mercator projection, which sort of imagines that the globe is a balloon inside a tube. You blow up the balloon inside the tube, and then when you deflate it, the ink has left behind where the countries are. And the consequence of this is it makes all the regions near the poles, such as Greenland, enormous,

1434.693 - 1454.291 Jay Foreman

And that's at the expense of all the regions close to the equator which look much smaller than they are. So on the most common seen flat map of the world, Greenland is about the same size as all of Africa. And it also makes most of Northern Europe look bigger than it really is. It stretches Scotland, it stretches Norway to be enormous, it makes Canada twice the size it really is.

1454.971 - 1478.391 Jay Foreman

And the African Union pointed out that this is an unhelpfully sort of colonialist way of looking at the world. When you have a map on a classroom wall, you've got to ask yourself, what's the job of that map? Is it so that people can navigate the world using lines? Does it have to be an accurate shape? Or is it perhaps more accurate to learn something like Africa is huge?

1479.032 - 1500.323 Jay Foreman

So that's why they're pushing for the Mercator map, the Mercator projection. to be retired after hundreds of years of imposing itself on the world, and for it to be swapped with something that better acknowledges that any flat map of the round earth is a distortion. And it shouldn't always be distorted at the expense of Africa, which in real life is massive.

1500.303 - 1525.161 Mike Carruthers

Well, no wonder you have your own show on YouTube. You know, I would have thought, maps? I mean, how interesting can that be? But clearly it is. I've been talking with Jay Foreman, co-host of Map Men on YouTube and author of the book This Way Up, When Maps Go Wrong and Why It Matters. There's a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. Jay, thank you for coming on. Thank you so much.

Chapter 8: How has YKK become the leading zipper manufacturer globally?

1543.366 - 1568.289 Mike Carruthers

Are they born that way, or have they learned to face their fears differently? My guest, Ranjay Gulati, says there's real science behind everyday courage and anyone can develop it. He is a professor at Harvard Business School and author of How to Be Bold, The Surprising Science of Everyday Courage. Hey, Ranjay, welcome to Something You Should Know. Thank you, Mike.

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1568.369 - 1583.561 Mike Carruthers

It's a pleasure to be here with you today. So when someone is described as courageous or bold, another word that's often used is fearless. Are courageous and bold people fearless? Is that what courage is?

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1584.522 - 1606.551 Ranjay Gulati

Courage is not the absence of fear, which is the way Hollywood and other fictional accounts portrayed. Courage is taking action in the face of fear. Most of us are not fearless. The fearless are far and few between. Most of us experience fear. Courage is being able to take action in the face of fear.

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1606.531 - 1627.847 Mike Carruthers

So you often hear people say, oh, look what he's doing. I could never do that. Like skydiving or climbing up a mountain. I could never do that either because there's something I have that gets in the way or there's something he doesn't have that allows him to do that.

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1628.198 - 1655.009 Ranjay Gulati

So, you know, it's a great observation. And actually one of the starting points for cowardice or lack of courage is this self-talk. We all have a narrative that we tell ourselves about ourselves. This is who I am. This is what I'm capable of doing. This is what I'm not capable of doing. And this inner voice can be a powerful enabler. It can also be a powerful disabler.

1655.029 - 1676.61 Ranjay Gulati

I'll just give you an example of this. So when I was a teenager, my mother was a successful fashion designer. She was doing very well. She bought a piece of land. A real estate developer was desperately trying to get this land from her. And one day he sends somebody to speak to her. I'm a teenager. He wants to come in for five minutes. My mother agrees to meet him. I bring him in.

1677.03 - 1696.396 Ranjay Gulati

She's in the living room. He sits down across from her and he says, ma'am, I need to buy your land. And she says, well, I'm really sorry. I've told you before, I don't want to sell it. I want to keep it for myself. He takes out a blank check and a piece of paper says, ma'am, please, you write the number. She says, it doesn't matter. I don't need the money. I just don't want to sell my land.

1696.977 - 1719.157 Ranjay Gulati

I'm going to build a farmhouse over there. He then gets a little more belligerent and says, ma'am, I can't leave without your signature. And he's a big burly guy. And my mother is five foot one. And my mother says, I'm sorry, not gonna happen. So he then, he's wearing a blazer, leans back and shows a gun. Now, I'm at the door. I see it. I'm panicked. I'm thinking, what should I do?

1719.237 - 1739.87 Ranjay Gulati

What should I do? Should I not? Should I call the guard at the gate? Should I jump him? Should I wait for him? Is he bluffing? My mother, without hesitation, stands up, walks across the room, and slaps him across the face. He doesn't even see it coming. Wow. How dare you come to my house and try to scare me and bully me into giving you my land, and you're scaring me with a gun?

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