289 – Annie Jacobsen & Be Afraid… Be Very Afraid
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Hello and welcome to Talking Scared. I'm your host, Neil McRobert, and I'm here to ruin your sleep, maybe your whole week. Occasionally on this show, we dip into non-fiction. We've covered serial killers, spiritualism, and a whole slew of cultural commentary. But rarely do we have a non-fiction book that's actually scarier than the made-up stories. This week we do, because Annie Jacobson has arrived with a scenario. Annie is an investigative journalist who's made a career in the intersection of national security and frightening secrets. She's written on conspiracy theories, murky intelligence operations and top secret research and came close to a Pulitzer in the process. In 2024 she found an even bigger audience
with nuclear war a scenario, a speculative examination of the hellish 72 minutes that could destroy civilisation. I know a good few horror writers who consider it too scary to read. But I'm brave, and even though she's back with something potentially even more frightening, for hypochondriacs like me at least, I read it bravely. Biological War, A Scenario. This one looks at what happens if a manufactured bioweapon were to escape confinement and how it would run amok in our hyper-connected world. It's a book of horrific truths and terrifying possibilities and Annie talks all about how she wrote it, how she researched it, how she shapes her narrative and what she learned that scared the hell out of her.
I opened this book with extreme trepidation, and I read it for you guys. You're welcome. And if you want to support the show in return, then please review the podcast wherever you listen. It really helps. And also, consider becoming a Patreon subscriber. You get all episodes ad-free and loads of bonus exclusive extras. I just released Bonus Chat with Sarah Langan and Melissa Albert about emotional books. and the scariest things about their hometowns. It's all at patreon.com slash talking scared pod, and those who sign up get the vaccine in the post. But now, come with me to a laboratory in an overlooked quarter of the world. The alarms are blaring, the doors are sealed, but though we may not escape, something has.
Let's talk scared. Hello, Annie, and welcome to Talking Scared.
What is the premise of Annie Jacobsen's Biological War: A Scenario?
How are you?
I'm great. Thank you so much for having me today.
I've been badgering your publicity team for months now, really haranguing them. But considering that you usually speak with senior journalists in the UN, I wasn't sure this would happen. So I appreciate it very much.
Well, thank you. You know, I love narrative and I really enjoy podcasts and you have a wonderful one. So thank you very much for having me.
Well, I'm glad you say that about narrative because I'm not someone who would in any way claim to be especially savvy about geopolitical affairs or the technologies that you so often focus on. But I am versed in the literature of fear. Right. And your work increasingly is terrifying. But do you get much chance to talk about the writing and the creativity as opposed to the facts?
I'm just still thinking about what you just said, the literature of fear. I'm going to borrow that because, you know, I really enjoy talking about narrative because it's so much about the people and I am so much about the people. I would not, my books would not exist and they wouldn't be great if it weren't for the people who tell me in narrative form what they have experienced, or rather maybe they tell me in scientific fact form and then it's my job to turn that into a narrative that all of us can understand.
I think I understand more than I wish to, to be honest. I finished this book last night. I'm a massive hypochondriac, so I am just not prepared for this at all. But the book at hand is called Biological War, a Scenario. And for those who don't know, can you explain the premise?
The top level premise would be I take the reader from outbreak to anarchy in six days. And then what happens after day six? Spoiler alert. We can talk about that. That's the really scary narrative. I mean, on top of horror, that's where it just goes, whoa.
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Chapters
4 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:11–2:55
2
What is the premise of Annie Jacobsen's Biological War: A Scenario?
2:55–29:40
3
How did Annie transition from reporting to writing speculative nonfiction scenarios?
29:40–50:46
4
How does Annie research secretive national security and biodefense programs?
50:46–1:15:26
Speakers
5 identifiedMore from Talking Scared
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