In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Muneeb Ali, founder of Stacks, about navigating his fourth bear market and why this one feels different as AI could potentially offer higher growth than crypto for the first time. Muneeb explains why quantum computing poses a real threat to Bitcoin even before quantum computers exist, and why some Bitcoin hardliners refuse to acknowledge the problem.He walks through the evolution of Bitcoin DeFi from peak excitement in 2024 to maturation in 2025, why BTC yield has product-market fit, and how Stacks is launching self-custodial Bitcoin staking with 3-7% yields. The conversation covers its $400M+ in BTC rewards already paid out, why institutions want Bitcoin-denominated returns and why Bitcoin maturing with yield capabilities will help traditional banks offer it to clients even if hardliners don't like BlackRock's involvement.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:24) How his 4th bear market feels different with AI competing with crypto(04:47) Quantum computing threat to Bitcoin and why hardliners won't acknowledge it(07:04) Bitcoin's path to quantum resistance(12:26) What happens to Satoshi's Bitcoin and lost coins in quantum future(14:44) Bitcoin to $1M by 2030: conviction despite slower appreciation rates(17:27) Bitcoin DeFi evolution from 2024 to 2025(21:06) Bitcoin collateral: yield and lending product-market fit(28:55) Why institutions want BTC-denominated yields(31:10) What changed culturally to make Bitcoin staking acceptable to holders(34:55) Self-custodial Bitcoin staking: earn 3-7% with BTC in your hardware walletESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.